Ting Ting Test

Hi Guys,

Before I start, let me say in advance that this is for information and education. I don't intend do try it because I love all my razors and couldn't bear to hurt any of them.

I have been surfing straight razor movies on youtube and came across an interesting one by a guy called Dr Matt.

He demonstrates how to tell if a blade is warped by placing the blade on the hone or a tile etc. and alternately pressing down on the toe and heel to listen for the ting sound that would prove that the blade is rocking and not straight.

He tapes the BLADE and hones the spine until the ting stops and then sets the bevel and hones as usual.

It seemed extreme to me and I seriously doubt I will ever do it, but I have heard guys say that a razor has never been a good shaver and wonder if Dr Matt might have a point about fixing a warped blade.

The other methods I have seen of honing warped blades involve rolling x strokes and other honing techniques but I can't help thinking that a person will end with a properly honed razor that is still warped and still might not be good shaver.

Like I said , I don't intend to try Dr Matts method but it was interesting to me and would be interested to learn what you experienced honers think. I have added a link to the movie in question.

https://youtu.be/WoMWRVAY-I4

Dr Matt :banghead::banghead::banghead: Lord save me.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

Dr Matt :banghead::banghead::banghead: Lord save me.

Bob

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Hi Bob,

Interesting response.

Reading between the lines I would hazard a guess you don't like Dr Matt much :hmmm:

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Originally Posted by STF

Reading between the lines I would hazard a guess you don't like Dr Matt much :hmmm:

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I wouldn't say that. I'm sure he is a nice human being.

Bob

I'll just say the Ting-Ting test and his solution is controversial...

Lots of ways to skin a cat, but that isn’t a technique that I would employ. Honing a warped razor is much easier once you understand how to use a rolling x stroke. If the spine is warped most likely the edge is as well which always results in an eventual frowning blade. The way to combat the warp is to use a rolling x on the convex side of the warp,then on the concave side to use a non rolling stroke.

To get the warp located on a blade that I am restoring I’ll do a few half stroke with concave side down on the hone. What this does is show you what the severity of the warp you have. The bevels will be heavier at toe and heel with the most severe part of the warp having the narrowest bevel. I then will sharpie on the concave side on the face of the blade to mark the two tallest parts of the bevel and one for the narrowest.

Next I flip the razor over on the hone but now employ a half rolling stroke, making sure to spend the least amount of time and pressure at the worst part of the warp, and apply pressure as well as a longer stroke at the toe and heel areas as I rung the blade down the hone. At some point your bevel will become more and more even. Keep an eye on the bevels too, you want those end up even in height from side to side to keep the edge towards the center as well as for aesthetic reasons.

Eventually your muscle memory will take over at some point and make it pretty easy to keep the strokes correct for the warp. Make sure to ink the bevels too, it’s just one more sight indicator to help keeping the stroke correct for a given side. Once you get the bevels set you can just watch the water as it undercuts, makes it super easy to see where you are at the edge as you make a stroke down the hone.

This creates a smile but it’s the only way I’ve found to get the entire edge properly honed when there’s a warp. Just remember the warp at the spine is less critical than a warp at the edge. The edge is what cuts the hair, the spine only assists in keeping a consistent angle of edge to the hone.

Use tape on the spine always when doing restoration work, no need to wear a spine down unnecessarily. Once the geometry is figured out during the restoration then you can go back to your normal tape/ no tape preference.

That video brought up a lot of discussion here, when it first came out. What a hack.!

I told ya to stay away from him Steve. Now that crap is stuck in your head. Just stay with razors that are in good to very good condition, and you'll never have to worry about if it tings. :shrug: whatever that means.

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Originally Posted by outback

That video brought up a lot of discussion here, when it first came out. What a hack.!

I told ya to stay away from him Steve. Now that crap is stuck in your head. Just stay with razors that are in good to very good condition, and you'll never have to worry about if it tings. :shrug: whatever that means.

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Ha , your'e right Mike but the problem is that you told me to stay away from him. When I was a kid my Mum told me not to smoke.

30 years later I quit.

I guess I'm one of those people that reverse psychology actually works on :rofl2:

A perfectly symmetrical smiling razor cannot lie flat on a flat surface. A warped smiler could lie flat on one side, but not both.

Two planes are either parallel, or they will intersect in a straight line. Euclid got this into print circa 300 BC, though it is thought to have been known before then.

A bit off topic, but to someone who believes a smile to be a superior shape for a razor edge, Dr Matt is insulting.

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Originally Posted by outback

That video brought up a lot of discussion here, when it first came out. What a hack.!

I told ya to stay away from him Steve. Now that crap is stuck in your head. Just stay with razors that are in good to very good condition, and you'll never have to worry about if it tings. :shrug: whatever that means.

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I also told Steve back on Nov 23 via Skype chat much the same thing about Dr Matt and to do a forum search for Dr Matt to understand why.

Bob

I think there is something wrong with his ting ting.
If you want to stuff your razors, then watch his videos. For the most part he is trying to correct crap razors made not in areas known for good quality control. Spend a decent amount on a great razor and forget this stuff.
Victor is absolutely correct.

“I also told Steve back on Nov 23 via Skype chat much the same thing about Dr Matt and to do a forum search for Dr Matt to understand why.”

Bob


Bailiff, Whack his Pee …

While it's true most who have gained experience have strange techniques to correct geometry which will enable them to properly set the bevel (or close enough!), it might seem outlandish/unwise to share such things with others. Esp those with little experience.

Dr Matt's ting and rock, etc are put out there as he wants to share things he has learned. I suppose they must work for him.
I truly hope beginners don't take them to mean it is something to be done as any bevel is set.

If you have a decent blade, outlandish things are not needed and may cause more damage than results.

Best to become proficient on honing a razor with good geometry FIRST in a proper and time-tested manner before experimenting with someone else's acts of desperation.

How will a new honer know when crazy things are needed unless he has achieved good results many times using ordinary techniques?
I know for a fact the advise has been given to the OP to set problem children aside and listen to standard, basic advise.
The reasons are many. Gaining experience on things going as they SHOULD go FIRST is paramount to success in standard honing and,as experience THERE is garnered, diagnosing and correcting potential problems in the future.
You gotta learn to walk BEFORE you can learn to ride a unicycle, I suppose.
Yeah. That!

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Originally Posted by BobH

I also told Steve back on Nov 23 via Skype chat much the same thing about Dr Matt and to do a forum search for Dr Matt to understand why.

Bob

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Your'e both right, you did both tell me about Dr Matt.

Trouble is it piqued my curiosity but I only looked, I didn't send him any razors.

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Originally Posted by STF

Your'e both right, you did both tell me about Dr Matt.

Trouble is it piqued my curiosity but I only looked, I didn't send him any razors.

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Yes, and had you looked up the threads relating to Dr Matt on here there are plenty of explanations why you might not want to use those methods nor be surprised by my answer to this thread. Oth you are most certainly free to try the methods and/or send a razor. It's the only way to find out for yourself.

Bob

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

While it's true most who have gained experience have strange techniques to correct geometry which will enable them to properly set the bevel (or close enough!), it might seem outlandish/unwise to share such things with others. Esp those with little experience.

Dr Matt's ting and rock, etc are put out there as he wants to share things he has learned. I suppose they must work for him.
I truly hope beginners don't take them to mean it is something to be done as any bevel is set.

If you have a decent blade, outlandish things are not needed and may cause more damage than results.

Best to become proficient on honing a razor with good geometry FIRST in a proper and time-tested manner before experimenting with someone else's acts of desperation.

How will a new honer know when crazy things are needed unless he has achieved good results many times using ordinary techniques?
I know for a fact the advise has been given to the OP to set problem children aside and listen to standard, basic advise.
The reasons are many. Gaining experience on things going as they SHOULD go FIRST is paramount to success in standard honing and,as experience THERE is garnered, diagnosing and correcting potential problems in the future.
You gotta learn to walk BEFORE you can learn to ride a unicycle, I suppose.
Yeah. That!

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Thanks Tom,

I understand and agree with everything you have said.

I fully intend to take things slowly and don't intend to try any of the weird techniques in Dr Matts movie.

I spend a lot of time looking at shaving vids and this one made an interesting change of pace but thats all.

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Originally Posted by BobH

Yes, and had you looked up the threads relating to Dr Matt on here there are plenty of explanations why you might not want to use those methods nor be surprised by my answer to this thread. Oth you are most certainly free to try the methods and/or send a razor. It's the only way to find out for yourself.

Bob

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Sorry Dad,

I didn't mean to make you cross, but thanks for letting me send Dr Matt a razor. I might just do that. :jedi:

Steve
This is just my opinion.

You are approaching troll status.

I would quit pulling chains and just make use of the info people are more than willing to share.

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Originally Posted by rolodave

Steve
This is just my opinion.

You are approaching troll status.

I would quit pulling chains and just make use of the info people are more than willing to share.

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Hi,

I am sorry if anyone here feels that I am out of order, please accept my apologies.

I have always make an honest attempt to post and reply with respect and good humour.

But, the respect I always try to treat everyone here with I feel I have the right to expect in return.

I appreciate the fact that I don't have much experience yet with a straight razor and a lot of the time I make bone comments and ask stupid questions but I always try to do it politely.

I don't feel that anyone here should have the right to give me a public telling off. I am very nearly 58 which makes me older than a lot of the experienced shavers and honers so if anyone here wants to tell me off, private me please.

Once again I apologize for any disrespect or hurt I have ever caused anyone here. I like to consider the SRP brotherhood my friends and would be mortified if I upset any of them.

Well Steve. If you look, most giving you advise here have a mentor badge. They are trying to mentor you in the right way.
Hard for us to put forth the effort and have you go off and seek (Much) different advise. (AS you might understand?)

We get great shaves and enjoy the sport. Sharing advise is usually a worthwhile endeavor for us.
Spinning our wheels....Not so much.
If you feel like someone is telling you off here, it won't happen much, I assure you.
Guys will begin to ignore you next. Not good. You may take a gander at those who might not be participating in your threads anymore?
Gotta do your part. Just listen and you will see results. Plain and simple.

See....now ya know why I said to stay away from Dr. Matt.

Just forget the man exists, so we can all get outta this shit storm in one piece. :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by STF

Hi,

I am sorry if anyone here feels that I am out of order, please accept my apologies.

I have always make an honest attempt to post and reply with respect and good humour.

But, the respect I always try to treat everyone here with I feel I have the right to expect in return.

I appreciate the fact that I don't have much experience yet with a straight razor and a lot of the time I make bone comments and ask stupid questions but I always try to do it politely.

I don't feel that anyone here should have the right to give me a public telling off. I am very nearly 58 which makes me older than a lot of the experienced shavers and honers so if anyone here wants to tell me off, private me please.

Once again I apologize for any disrespect or hurt I have ever caused anyone here. I like to consider the SRP brotherhood my friends and would be mortified if I upset any of them.

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Steve— regardless of how old you are, you are 313 or by now 315 posts on here, which is thousands less than the people I still read to learn from.

Cute and clever comes off oddly in a forum full of generous “experts” who are willing not only to share experience and knowledge, but actual razors with you....and more importantly, time.

Don’t respond, just think about it.

Im lucky.
I cant stand Dr. Matts attitude or the way he talks and smiles all the damn time. So when i was learning and watching vids i stayed away from him.
Just sit back, Steve. Let all the info you have gained from us sink in. Hone and hone and hone some more. It will all make since in the end. It just takes much more time than you have into it yet.

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Originally Posted by Gasman

Im lucky.
I cant stand Dr. Matts attitude or the way he talks and smiles all the damn time. So when i was learning and watching vids i stayed away from him.

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+1 there. I’m sure he is a good person I just was never a fan of his videos either.

I actually met him in person at the Shave SW in Phoenix last year. It was just a hello, but he seemed OK.

FWIW, I've not had a problem with Dr. Matt's videos, not that I follow or have viewed all them. His style of presentation is what it is, take it or leave it. Chefs Knives to Go asked him to make a video on stropping kitchen knives which I do follow. It involves a 3-stroke, 2-stroke, 1-stroke countdown on each face of the knife with a bench strop. Over the past 2-3 years, I've adapted this to good effect with custom built, two-sided pasted balsa and plain vegetable-tanned leather bench strops.

Lol, if he was describing honing a factory Gold Dollar, honing the spine straight and even first is good advice, especially since it’s too thick anyway. For razors that were manufactured to better standards, there are a lot of reasons that a razor spine can rock on a flat surface and should not be flattened out, a properly made smiler for example as Victor notes.

He’s a good fellow as far as I know, curious about things which I admire, but I don’t think that his conclusions can always be supported by his arguments. If you have a valuable or historic razor and Dr. Matt recommends grinding the spine down, I’d ask for a second opinion.

People who don’t listen, why waste your advise on them?

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Originally Posted by Brontosaurus

FWIW, I've not had a problem with Dr. Matt's videos, not that I follow or have viewed all them. His style of presentation is what it is, take it or leave it. Chefs Knives to Go asked him to make a video on stropping kitchen knives which I do follow. It involves a 3-stroke, 2-stroke, 1-stroke countdown on each face of the knife with a bench strop. Over the past 2-3 years, I've adapted this to good effect with custom built, two-sided pasted balsa and plain vegetable-tanned leather bench strops.

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For me his style of presentation is not a problem either and his vid on knives may very well be excellent but I have no interest in knives so have not seen them. I am interested in honing straight razors and really abhor some of the techniques he touts in honing straight razors. I would encourage people to look elsewhere for that.

Bob

Never met him. Never seen a vid. Really don't care

I give you credit Steve.. You have dove head first into learning everything you can on SR's.. I think you have been a member for 3 months or so and still seem as enthusiastic and inquizitive as when you started.. Many people start out guns a blazing but fade out after things get a little tough..That is not you and i really like your determination to learn all that you can .. I think you are getting treated a little unfair in this thread.. Though i fully understand some of these guys have spent a lot of their own time mentoring you and giving you fantastic advice and apparrently it seems they have advised about this guys unorthodox ways and to stay clear.. But for you to be talked about on an open forum and be chastized in public per se is not right.. And who the f%&ck is TC talking to with the post of "People who dont listen, why waste your time on them?" Im betting that made you feel pretty good Steve? And he's a so called Mentor.. I could tell by that post where you defended yourself and asked to be.contacted personally if anyone has any issues with you that you were not very pleased.. I have not seen any posts or questions from you since then and i really hope you have not left because of this?
As you probably know more than i because of the personal contact you have had with a lot of these guys that they are all ready, willing and want to help with any questions any of us might have.. I am certainly glad they are all here to help.. 99% of them i should say..

I’ll tell you who I am, jackass, I’m not you a full of shit Nancy boy

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Originally Posted by TCMichigander

I give you credit Steve.. You have dove head first into learning everything you can on SR's.. I think you have been a member for 3 months or so and still seem as enthusiastic and inquizitive as when you started.. Many people start out guns a blazing but fade out after things get a little tough..That is not you and i really like your determination to learn all that you can .. I think you are getting treated a little unfair in this thread.. Though i fully understand some of these guys have spent a lot of their own time mentoring you and giving you fantastic advice and apparrently it seems they have advised about this guys unorthodox ways and to stay clear.. But for you to be talked about on an open forum and be chastized in public per se is not right.. And who the f%&ck is TC talking to with the post of "People who dont listen, why waste your time on them?" Im betting that made you feel pretty good Steve? And he's a so called Mentor.. I could tell by that post where you defended yourself and asked to be.contacted personally if anyone has any issues with you that you were not very pleased.. I have not seen any posts or questions from you since then and i really hope you have not left because of this?
As you probably know more than i because of the personal contact you have had with a lot of these guys that they are all ready, willing and want to help with any questions any of us might have.. I am certainly glad they are all here to help.. 99% of them i should say..

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A bit late, but why not PM the OP, give him support and mentor him yourself.
He may respond to you? Lots of threads to read through to help you understand what's up here.
Coming in late and criticizing after not participating does not help.......
Steve knows what we speak of and has acknowledged it is true. We certainly had no wish to 'chastise' him.
He admittedly brought it upon himself. Bad situation.

I am going to close this down for a bit and clean it up

That was Glen The Senior Mod :D

As "gssixgun" and a good friend of Dr Matt this technique is something he and I vehemently disagree on.
The very idea of introducing spine wear on a razor because you are too damn lazy to learn how to hone around it is like fingers on a chalkboard to a Restorist

Matt & I can disagree on this and still be friends,,,

Happy New Year