Finishing with coticule???

I have a new coticule, I can get it to HHT 3ish. I can’t seem to get better edge. Please help.
I am experienced with jnat, ark, film.
Razors bevels are well set with king 1k or vintage washita
With slurry razor gets sharp quickly.
I’m told stone is fast and swarf is observable within 5-6 laps.
I’ve tried diluted slurry.worked slurry, water, running water, differnt volumes of slurry.......
I’ve tried all different ranges of pressure.
Low lap count and high lap count....
Best I can get is just barely HHT 3.
I would estimate my best edge with this coti 10-12K edge.
I am following coti work with plain canvas, and plain leather strop
Shaves are passable and very comfortable,
edges are not as sharp or shave as close jnat, ark, film edges
Sorry to churn up a previously covered subject.
I have tried honing 2 modern dovos, and 2 gencos so far similar results.

Advice please?

High lap count won’t equate to a better HHT. In fact because the stone is fast, the autoslurry will start to have a dulling effect after too many strokes.

My advice would be to do extra light ( weight of the blade) strokes on running water, or soapy water for adding slickness, not too many, say 10 laps, and go back to the strop, if the HHT is still not to your liking, repeat the process again, and go back to the strop, until you really zero in on the edge you want and squeeze out that maximum keenness out of the stone.

try taking the edge to 8k synthetic (or a good shaving finish) then just do 20-30 laps or so on the coticule under running water. Coticule edge probably won't be as sharp as the other naturals or film but they do have a nice smooth feeling. I prefer using my coticule edge when I just have 2 or 3 days of growth

Some folks say that cotis will only get you to around the equivalent of 8K synthetic. Folks report they can get a really good shave after a progression with a Norton 4K/8K combo stone.

I tend to agree with finishing on the coti with weight of the razor and running water or glycerin and water. I have even tried doing 10 laps really light on the dry coti. I generally finish with a Vermio or CrOx on balsa after a coti progression.

If the shave feels good and is clean and smooth, HHT doesn’t really matter. The ultimate criterion for a test of an edge is shaving the facial hair, not snapping individual hairs.

I have a very fast LV coti that auto slurries very fast and at first I was knocking my head against the wall trying to get a JNAT HHT but finally slowed way down and realized I was slurry dulling the edge so as suggested try light water only laps after a 8k

I am not a ‘practitioner’ of the hht levels myself but I get some great shaves off the coticules. Saying that, I can’t get them as sharp as using synths or jnat. I have stopped trying to do so as the coticule has become all about comfort and being smooth for me.
My previous attempts to get that killer edge led me to reading plenty about light strokes and honing under water - many providing the caveat that, if at all possible, a particular coti stone had to be worked and worked to unlock that potential.
Good luck

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Originally Posted by Badgister

High lap count won’t equate to a better HHT. In fact because the stone is fast, the autoslurry will start to have a dulling effect after too many strokes.

My advice would be to do extra light ( weight of the blade) strokes on running water, or soapy water for adding slickness, not too many, say 10 laps, and go back to the strop, if the HHT is still not to your liking, repeat the process again, and go back to the strop, until you really zero in on the edge you want and squeeze out that maximum keenness out of the stone.

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This. After that, try the lightest pressure you can manage, and a lot more laps. Finally, a bunch of very short strokes.

It is really hard to break out of the envelope with a coticule. If you really nail it, consider yourself blessed.

Try a pasted strop with chromium oxide after the coticule.

I have not used the HHT in 10 years or so to judge my edges, the quality of the shave is the true test. The HHT only means the razor is sharp, it does not equate to a smooth, comfortable shave.

So, put a 1um, with paper edge on it or the best Jnat edge you can muster. Shave test with either or both.

Then hone 20 finish laps with the Coticule, see what happens to the edge. Is the edge improved or degraded? It may be all your coticule can do. They are the most frustrating stones to learn. They are natural stone, each unique.

As I have said, nobody owns just one Coticule, they are always looking for one that will give a better finish.

I have only had the opportunity the use three Coticules; one belong to a friend, a Select bout I acquired several years ago and one that was recently gifted to me, all three were different. It does take some time to learn each one but knowledge gained from learning one will help while trying to learn another.

Personally, I love Coticule edges especially on most Sheffield razors. Not all razors react the same to a Coticule, I've had a few razors that didn't like Coticules at all. You have to remember: when honing straight razors each country, each manufacture uses different metals which require different honing techniques and different hones. The more hones you have the more tools to work with. Simply put, honing razors is an experiment............

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Originally Posted by DoughBoy68

I have only had the opportunity the use three Coticules; one belong to a friend, a Select bout I acquired several years ago and one that was recently gifted to me, all three were different. It does take some time to learn each one but knowledge gained from learning one will help while trying to learn another.

Personally, I love Coticule edges especially on most Sheffield razors. Not all razors react the same to a Coticule, I've had a few razors that didn't like Coticules at all. You have to remember: when honing straight razors each country, each manufacture uses different metals which require different honing techniques and different hones. The more hones you have the more tools to work with. Simply put, honing razors is an experiment............

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I don't subscribe to the pairing of certain steels with certain hones. I mainly hone using one of my coticules (I have three, one of which a 1.5x10cm bout, all of their finishes quite indistinguishable from one another), with the odd session on a Thüringer (of which I incidentally also have three).

I have used them to hone a wide variety of Sheffield, Solingen, Eskilstuna, Japanese, USA, and French razors. I have yet to encounter a well-made razor that doesn't take a comfortably shaving edge off these hones.

I am a firm believer in the adagio that the biggest factor in getting a great result is the hands that wield the tools. But blaming the tools is just much more palatable to the ego. There are defective hones (also coticules; my fourth is one as it has hard inclusions). There are even more hands that have yet to learn how to use the ones that aren't.

Best regards,

Pieter

You might also want to try dry honing on your coticule, very light strokes. I've come to actually prefer that to finishing under running water, but as people have pointed out each stone is different. The other thing here is to just maybe manage your expectations a bit: your stone just may not give the kind of sharp edge you're looking for and that might be just fine! For myself, I take the smoothness of the coti-edge over the greater keenness of other edges more or less every time.

Also, of you want to improve your final keenness with a coticule you can put a bit of talcum powder on the hone, massage it onto the surface and do a bunch (I'd say at least 20) of finishing strokes. You can add a few drops of water if you want, but it's not a requirement.

Of course unnecessary works best if you maxed out your edge on water first.

Another thing I always suggest when people encounter problems with honing on their coticule is the unicot method. It's as fool-proof a method as you can get for coticules.

Regards,

Pieter

One thing that helped up my coticule edges was stropping the razor fully and then returning to the stone. Repeat stropping, but twice the laps what you normally do.

If you want a hands on opinion, shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to test it out/finish a razor or 2 on it, no charge.

That is exactly what I do.

Some tips and tricks I’ve found to help.

1. A honing oil. It will easily wash off with soap and water.
2. Soap and water.
3. Light stropping strokes on the stone.
4. Lots of stropping.
5. Adding a micro bevel with a layer of tape.
6. Practice using the same stone and nothing else.
7. Using paste.
8. Knowing when your edge is maxed out and some coticule do leave something to be desired in the finishing department. Out of 30+ I have owned I’ve had some fantastic finishers, some 4K range ones, a couple with inclusions that degraded every edge.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by dinnermint

One thing that helped up my coticule edges was stropping the razor fully and then returning to the stone. Repeat stropping, but twice the laps what you normally do.

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+1, what he said.

“One thing that helped up my coticule edges was stropping the razor fully and then returning to the stone. Repeat stropping, but twice the laps what you normally do.”

That is good advice with any fishing stone.