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I found an interesting video by DrMatt who used to be active on SRP.
It is a video on honing from start to finish. The first part of the video shows how he corrects a wobbly TI spine.
Towards the end he shows how to get a HHT-sharp edge with an ILR hone. ILR hones attract very mixed reviews here.
Felt it might be useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNXPKjVo_64
Quit watching Dr. Matt!
Er, no. :deadhorse:
There are other forums that this will appeal to. I personally put that style of honing with Gold Dollars. If you just want an utilitarian razor that shaves no matter the aesthetics then fine, this style if honing will work.
If I spent a lot of money on a razor I would not want to grind down the spine needlessly.
Dr Matt is a hack
The mention of Dr Matt always makes me a little sick feeling.
Bob
Kinda like playing gansta rap in a church service
So, lets say you follow Dr. Matts idea. Now you have a flat/ more straight spine. Now you have to measure what you have left of a spine and multiply that by 4 and now cut your edge off to match the 4 to 1 math to get a proper bevel angle. Now after that you need to regrind the hollow of the razor to get rid of the damage you did to the lower part of the spine. Then reshape the top of the spine so its closer to true to hide the damage on top. Now try to hone what you got left. Dr. Matt didnt tell ya about that did he.
Or
Buy a razor that isnt wonky
or
learn to hone wonky razors.
JMO.
Ahh, Dr Matt, the Jonathon Livingstone Seagull of razor honing.
I wonder if he realises that flattening the spine doesn't magically un-warp the razor :roflmao
If I needed to grind the spine to fix a BRAND NEW razor, then I would try to send it back.
Sounded reasonable, but I'm no expert. This is what I thought people did to Gold Dollars with wonky spines.
I remember reading something about checking edges with a tomato, but that is the first video I've seen where it was done.
I like Dr. Matt's videos.
Yeah, if you can’t figure out how to hone your razor with a smile, or a thick spot in the spine you can stuff your razor regrind the spine and create some spine wear to “fix it”. I’ve seen a lot of fixed razors on eBay.
Just to be contrarian to some of the above.
I think if you have a nice flat cutting edge as in the video but an uneven spine Dr Matt's approach seems right to me. I cannot see how removing some metal of the spine would change the bevel angle so much that it will become a problem. We do not hesitate to tape the spine with 1 or 2 layers of tape but as soon as some metal is removed from the spine it is frowned on. Preserving the pristineness of the spine seems to be more important than having a razor with an edge that is easy to maintain.
Like cutting off the nose, in spite the face.
I don’t think what was done in that video was correct.
If in fact the spine on that razors had a very slight high spot in the middle on both sides, and it may have, I have seen that before. The amount of steel removed to correct that should have left a wear pattern, wide at the height point and tapering off to nothing at the tang end and toe end. What he shows in the end is nothing shy of an excessive amount of wear. I have honed new razors for customers, with no tape at their request. The amount of wear on that razor was the equivalent to an extraordinary number of bevel sets. I also find it very hard to believe that that razor is going to be any easier to maintain. It’s not because he removed metal from the spine, it’s about how much he removed with his aggressive tactics. DrMatt has some very excessive methods that takes the life out of razors. You could get razors to shave well without rubbing the life out of them on diamond plates.
Its a matter of learning to hone. Not grind something down so it might make honing easier. Maybe. And maybe waste a razor too.
You can argue/debate his methods till the cows come home and it has been done on a few long threads on here in the past. In the end there is only one way to find out if what you think may be true. Take one of your own razors with a similar problem and use his method to cure it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees
Bob
I've stayed away from forum dramas for a reason. So all I'll say is this:
I don't particularly care for drmatt's videos, mostly because he is so goddam chipper and happy. Most doctors have too much to worry about to be so flippin' happy, and I should know.
Despite my prejudice above, he doesn't mislead dreadfully in any of them (except in recommending the ILR). I've learned a thing or two from them, and so could anyone else.
I can see he might have offended certain gurus, who can't cope with opposing views, different experiences, or other ways of dealing with problems to solve.
I've been playing with straight razors for about twenty years, and consider myself a beginner. Be suspicious of anyone who tells you they know it all.
Finally, go and acquire all the info you can. Try it out. See what works. Just use your common sense. You'll soon see who is in it for egotistical reasons or for profit.
What Dr Matt is saying about the spine of a razor is probably true, based on my one limited example. It's just a question of how much correction is needed and whether you want to to put that wear on the spine. There are folks who are against ever putting a spine on a hone, just because, and that’s IMO just as bad as brute forcing a spine, just because.
I’m not against fixing factory problems, but I am against uglying up a razor - you can hone wonky razors as-is, but if the fix is small, that’s something to be considered. Here’s my example.
I have a Kikuboshi, one of the ones in the translucent red scales with a shorter blade, a fairly valuable and nice razor. It would make an unpleasant sound and feeling honing the show side (without tape) While the pile side was smooth. I consulted with Glen, then Sharpied the show side spine and bevel. There was indeed a high spot about 3/8” long on the spine about 1/3 of the way up from the heel. I decided to try removing it, and if that did not work without disfiguring the spine I’d stop and just tape it.
So I used the corner of a DMT to selectively target the hump, just s few strokes, then put the razor on the hone and see if it fixed the problem. After about half a dozen short strokes on the corner of the DMT it did fix it. Note that using tape would not fix anything, the hump would have still been there though the tactile feeling on the hone might be improved - that’s fixing me, not the razor. Can you see where I removed the hump? Yes, but only if you know where it was and what to look for - it wasn’t that bad. I didn’t know if this would work when I started, I just decided to give it a try, going slowly and treading lightly.
When doing corrective honing on a razor, you always have to think about what what you’re doing and what the end effect on the razor will be. And how it affects the value of the razor. If this had been a bad problem, the razor would have been prettier and more valuable honed with tape than with fat spine wear on one side. With no particular razor in hand, to say that you should always use tape and that no spine wear is acceptable is not a defendable position. It’s always good to question your own beliefs and to try new things. JMO.
My biggest gripe about this whole spine correction idea is that a perfectly ground smiling razor will be judged as wonky using the tap and wobble criteria. Once you can accept that as a geometrical truth, you may see the folly in the fool's errend of worrying about it on other non smiling razors.
This is one method of honing, it works. It is just one technique. The same razor could easily have been fully honed with tape and an X stroke, another technique.
Matt starts the grinding correction stating,” If you have a problem with Hone wear, you may want to fast forward.”
Matt, a member here for years, is a competent honer, has a large collection of stones, strops and razors, and approaches honing systematically and thoughtfully. He is also a nice guy.
He has made hundreds of honing videos, and taught thousands to hone, enter and stay in the hobby, more that most of his detractors combined.
Additionally, all the “Spine Wear”, can easily be made to disappear with a few minutes of hand sanding on most razors.
Years ago, here on SRP it was a heated topic of contention, that removing spine wear was done by charlatans, and fraudsters, to bamboozle unsuspecting buyers of the “true” condition of a razor. Go figure. I guess all of us that do restoration are guilty.
It is just one technique for correction of a spine issue.
I have purchased many near NOS razor that were never used because of warp or grinding issues and could not be honed by the average guy. A few minutes of correction, mostly heel correction and they are able to be easily honed and give lifetime service.
Here’s an image of the Kikuboshi. It was used with light/moderately light wear when I got it. You can see that the spine wear widens a little at the heel, that’s from taking the ‘knob’ off. I still wouldn’t consider this significantly worn, and it’s consistent with Rezdog’s comment about the wear pattern in post #14.
It looks good Steve. It is a good example of just removing what is needed.