Contra Thueringans?

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08-26-2007, 10:56 AM
Scarface Germany

Contra Thueringans?

Just wondering about the mixed opinions on the thueringan / thuringan / MST / Mueller and what-else-they-are-called hones ?

What about them is not to like???

I have searched the forums but I can´t really find any discussion on them?

Personally I like them a lot more than most artificial japanese water hones in grit sizes between 6.000-8.000 and I use the MST-"thuringan" after the belgian coticule.

What other hones are comparable, prefered or even better than the Mueller MST hones in the U.S.A. or the rest of the world?
08-26-2007, 11:34 AM
Kees

The Original-Thueringers sold by MST are the same as the Mueller Thueringers Manufactum sells.

There's also vintage Thueringers, many of them were sold by Escher and Droescher and are known as Eschers. They all have garnets as cutting agents in them, the garnets can be released by using a rubbing stone. Just like the coticule.

I have both an Escher and a Manufactum Thueringer. The Escher feels smoother to the touch but the results I get are the same with both.

A member of Nassrasur compared his vintage Thueringer with the Manufactum Thueringer and found that their make-up is identical in spite of the fact that the vintage one feels smoother to the touch. I have the electron microscopic pictures he made if you like.

I have never been able to insert pictures into posts on SRP, so if you, or anyone else, are interested I'll send them to you by email. Just send me a PM with your email address.
08-26-2007, 08:50 PM
roughrider

You can have your photos hosted for free at www.photobucket.com
08-26-2007, 09:09 PM
blaireau

1 Attachment(s)

Kees' Pictures

Kees, I took the liberty to post your pictures. Only one met the criterion of file size.
08-26-2007, 10:06 PM
scarface

Here are the re-sized photos

http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...age_Thur.2.JPG

http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...ur_Detail..jpg

http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...roscopisch.jpg

http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...nen_detail.JPG

I'll let Kees do the descriptions

-whatever

-Lou
08-26-2007, 10:14 PM
Jonedangerousli

http://picasa.google.com/ is a great photo/imaging program.
08-27-2007, 08:45 AM
Kees

Thanks Lou for posting the pics.

The ones with a match: left is a vintage Thueringer, the right one is the Mueller Thueringer ( Manufactum Thueringer). The Mueller Thuringer has some pyrite inclusions and looks and feels coarser than the vintage one on the left.
The lowest picture shows the label of the vintage Thueringer.

THe electron micragraph shows the slurry of both stones which looks identical. Original Thueringer = vintage Thueringer.

Pictures are made by Bartisto, member of Nassrasur.com.

I'll try the hosting later when I got more time.
08-29-2007, 03:12 AM
randydance062449

The Chinese 12K also works well as a finishing hone. It is just a little slow. Frankly, for sharpness I prefer the Chinese 12k but for comfort I prefer the escher, thuringen over the coticule. But... that is all personal preference. And I always finish with a 0.5 micron chrome oxide pasted strop. Again for comfort plus a level of sharpness that agrees with me.

Just my two cents,:)
08-31-2007, 11:09 PM
Scarface Germany

Could anybody help me finding a supplier of 12 K Chinese hones with a homepage to get some further info on these products....since I still do not really trust most things that are produced in China... :fim:

Aren´t there any other recommendable finishing hones which are still being produced and available?
Some time ago I received another vintage "Duro Razor Hone" which caught my attention on Ebay but... darn it... that thing sucks!
I have also bought two other vintage "Razor Hones" in the past and those suck, too!!!
Since these things were actually called "Razor Hones" and made specially for honing straight razors I expected them to surprise me in a positive way?
Well, they did not!!!!!:td

By now I consider the (new and still available) Mueller/Manufactum Thueringer the best finishing Hone I have had but I am still looking for others maybe better ones.

Best regards
09-01-2007, 03:27 AM
Straight and loving it

Chinese 12K hone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface Germany

Could anybody help me finding a supplier of 12 K Chinese hones with a homepage to get some further info on these products....since I still do not really trust most things that are produced in China... :fim:

Here you go...
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4920

I have one of these and like it very much. The hone does need to be lapped flat before use however.
09-02-2007, 06:59 PM
bjrn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

The Original-Thueringers sold by MST are the same as the Mueller Thueringers Manufactum sells.

Does anyone know if there's a difference in the stones that Manufactum sells, and the ones sold at toolshop.de?
09-04-2007, 10:36 PM
Scarface Germany

Toolshop sells three different sizes of it but it´s the same hone except that the toolshop stones come wrapped in paper with Herbertz Logo on it, not in a MST cardboard-box.
09-04-2007, 10:41 PM
Scarface Germany

Rumors spread again that manufaktum is not going to sell this hone any longer.
Once the stocks are sold out they will (probably) not be ordered again.

Don´t know if this is really going to happen since one of the employees in the Berlin store told me it´s their best selling hone but it is not in the new catalog. :confused:
09-04-2007, 11:08 PM
bjrn

Thanks for clearing up the manufactum/toolshop thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarface Germany

Rumors spread again that manufaktum is not going to sell this hone any longer.
Once the stocks are sold out they will (probably) not be ordered again.

Well, if they sell the same as toolshop it's not such a big deal. Especially since Manufactum won't ship outside Germany and toolshop will. :)

Although I imagine it might be annoying if you're used to the convenience of being able to pick one up at a brick & mortar store close to you (then again, how often would you go to buy a new one?).
09-04-2007, 11:17 PM
Scarface Germany

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjrn

Thanks for clearing up the manufactum/toolshop thing.

Although I imagine it might be annoying if you're used to the convenience of being able to pick one up at a brick & mortar store close to you (then again, how often would you go to buy a new one?).

Don´t ask!
I have recently caught HAD....cough....cough....:thinking:
Good Luck that Toolshop is only a 10 minute drive from where I live :(
09-06-2007, 05:35 PM
SteveS

I think I've sorted this out. Can someone confirm the following . . .

As I understand it, based on price, dimensions, and comments on this site, there are two different Thueringers sold:
1. Toolshop's Natural Whetstone - Fine, which is the same as Manufactum's Thüringer Wasserabziehstein, which is the same as MST-Mueller's Natur-Wasserabziehnsteine. Is that right?
2. MST-Mueller's Original Thueringer Wasserabziehstein, which is like the old Eschers. Is that right?
09-06-2007, 06:35 PM
Tony Miller

Close actually, MST "natural" stone is a Hunsrueck/Eifel stone from Western Germany, not Thuringen. Similar makeup, a fine stone but a good deal faster cutting.

The MST "original", the Mueller and probably the Toolshop stone are very similar if not exactly the same. The "originals" I have seen still seem finer to the touch, lapped or not and come in several color/shade and hardness variations. All cut nearly the same though.

Tony
09-06-2007, 06:49 PM
SteveS

Thanks, Tony. Since Toolshop will ship one to the US for 16 euros, it seems like a viable bargain for Americans, though there is a risk of chips and other defects and their stones are not lapped.