I always hone heel leading but I read on here somewhere that there are a few circumstances where a person hones with the heel following.
I was just wondering when and why a person would do that.
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I always hone heel leading but I read on here somewhere that there are a few circumstances where a person hones with the heel following.
I was just wondering when and why a person would do that.
Are you confusing that with edge trailing? Often the shoulder or the shape of the spine and shank get in the way of very much of an edge leading heel following stroke.
I don't thinks so.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman7
Obviously I go edge leading but angle the blade to about 45 dgrees so that the heel edge is down and leading.
I have heard that there are occasions when the blade would still be edge first but angled so that the toe leads, I was wondering when that would be done and why.
Well, then you often get into that stabilizer, shoulder, shank, interference that I was talking about. I don't think that strai orientation matters very much on the finished edge of a razor, though changing it up does speed up the material removal when you are in that stage of honing. So that could be a possible reason. I don't think that I've ever done it.Quote:
Originally Posted by STF
I may have missed it but I can't recall ever reading about a toe leading stroke on this forum.
Bob
As Vic was saying, Changing the angle to change the direction of the stria helps in removing the stria from larger grit. And I have done this including with a toe leading stroke but not much of it. Also, if you're having an issue getting a bevel set, working on the edge in smaller sections can help. And when doing this it might be a version of getting the toe set. But it would all need blending back together as a full stroke before it was properly set.
I don't feel that a toe leading stroke is very common and I'd stay away from it until you are solid in your honing abilities.
I have not used a toe leading stroke.
I can see where that would work but be uncomfortable and harder to do the same stroke over and over.
I find the toe forward a bit awkward. I tend to hit the stabilizer on the edge of the stone more. Maybe I should lay the razor on glass, but thinking about it toe forward angles the stabilizer towards the stone and heel forward away. So probably a smaller margin of error. Add that to only doing that with mindless fast strokes...
Are we talking about for lack of a better term an upward or downward stroke?
I think we are talking about bevel setting a 3" razor on a 2" stone. So you put the blade at an angle so the whole edge of the blade is on the stone and rub it up and down the stone. You can orient it with the toe pointing towards you and the toe pointing away from you.
Take a look at the SRP logo. If you put the stone up and down, that is what I'd call toe forward.
Although I don't say never I do mostly edge leading strokes.
Yes I too have seen that mentioned and I do use a toe forward, edge leading stroke sometimes but not as as large part of the honing process. Where I use it is normally at bevel set after an edge leading heel to toe x stroke has been done and checking the bevel reveals the the toe needs more attention. I did it just the other night with a W&B Bow Razor. For whatever geometrical reason the toe was still not there after quite a bit of traditional x stroke. So starting with the toe on the bottom of the stone I gave it a series of strokes edge forward up the stone toward the heel. After a few of these I would go back to a traditional x stroke because, as mentioned, it is very easy to crash the shoulder into the stone this way so I wasn't going the whole length. Now this was just to concentrate on the toe so the following heel to toe x strokes were to make a complete stroke.
Honestly I pay very little attention to stria except as a crude gauge of how thorough I have been along the length. I really just spend my time looking at the edge itself from the side and straight down for cleanness, straightness, absense of chips and lack of sparkles. The stria is like a guitar scale. The scale isn't the riff. It is just the map to making the riff. The stria isn't the edge. It is the progression to achieving the edge.
I should add to that that as I have done at bevel set, I will usually do all the way through to finish. If the toe needed toe forward strokes to get it more thoroughly at bevel set it will likely need it through the rest of the progression. Not always but this is where stria is helpful. I look at the edge down the length from the side and then from the top or visa versa then look to see (from the stria) that the whole length has been worked by that stone. Beyond that I couldn't care less if it is neat or tidy, straight or slanted, all in a row or cross hatched.
All the old barbers manuals show heal leading. Possibly to stop a heel hook forming, or to keep the stabiliser out of the way.
No doubt there was a reason.
Lost count of razors I have seen worn out at the toe, I guess they didn't read the manual...
Well it's also not very natural going toe first and normally not necessary. In fact I almost never do with my razors. With my kitchen knives on the other hand I do the toe forward much more often. My wife does this thing which I can't get her to stop. She likes to cut foods (meats mainly) still in the pan or on a plate instead of on a cutting board so it badly dulls the tips. I have worn myself out asking her not to do that but to no avail. I actually got her a really nice large wood cutting board for Christmas several years ago which resides on the counter next to the stove and she won't use it for cutting or chopping on because she doesn't want to mark it up. :thinking::gaah:..."uhhhhh, Honey. That's why they call it a (air quotes) 'cutting board.' "Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazor
Ya with my larger kitchen knives I do toe first too, and then after the toe is repaired I go heel first to get everything right
Ha! Thinking about PaulFLUS' and Tc's comments about sharpening the toes of knives and I'm saying 'Yeah, but you are still mostly sharpening perpendicular to the tangent, it only appears to be toe leading because of the belly in the knife.'
With that in mind I started thinking about honing my smiling razors. Since I'm always doing a rolling X stroke, I think that it does appear 'Toe leading' by the time I'm finishing the stroke. Kind of a windshield wiper movement as the razor moves down the hone. Since there is still a lateral pulling motion the stria still shows a bias relative to the tangent as if I was honing heel leading.
I'm thinking about it too much right now to analyze exactly what I do. I have some honing to do over the next few days and I'll pay attention to my natural stroke.
To maybe clarify my meaning, my 8”” knives tend to need more work on the front 2” of the blade, it’s the area of the blade that gets dull first, that point is the pivot, now I start just point first on the blade and hone that dull spot up . Then I do full laps the heel first to even up my edge. The last half of the blade isn’t taking much dulling
Did some honing today and paid attention. Yes, my stroke using a rolling X on a smiling razor is pretty much exactly like I described above. As the pressure point moves from heel to toe, the tangent of the smile at that point stays perpendicular to the long axis of the stone. So heel leading at the beginning of the stroke and toe leading at the finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman7
I always start heal forward and end up toe forward, kind of a sweeper wiper move and it tends to keep the blade smiling and I’m good with that
I took this to mean and am talking about starting with the edge going forward but with the toe at the bottom of the stone pushing toward the heel. I think that's what TC means too.
I've used that stroke on razors too. So I've gone from 'I don't think I've ever done it' to I've done it without thinking about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulFLUS
I'm guilty of that, particularly, fillet knives. They get the most wear directly on the tip and first 3/4" of the tip, from hitting bone.
So I typically start with a sawing action near the center of the hone, working the tip back n forth, and using the flex of the blade to keep a constant pressure and angle. Once the tip is back in order, back full blade passes to even it all out.
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