Wits' End: The Jagged Edge

Okay, I'm throwing myself on you guys' mercy.

I believe I've spent some hundreds of hours learning to hone. I have
every piece of equipment I should need, including several good-quality
hones such as the Norton 4k/8k, a DMT for lapping, a machinist's
ruler, a microscope, several loupes, not to mention about 18 razors,
some of them quite nice. Ages ago, I had a couple of the razors honed
by experts, one of them Our Founder Lynn, but beyond that I have never
been able to shave with one of my own razors. I have read thousands of
words on the topic of honing, watched several very instructive videos
including Lynn's, and done my best to match in practice what I've
learned by observation, all to no avail.

Meanwhile, I've been contentedly shaving with a Feather DX for many
months, but the WHOLE POINT of this endeavor was to be able to stop
using disposable blades.

A couple of confessions: First, I really can't use the one-handed honing
approach, except with hand-held barber hones. I just don't trust the
very slight uncertainty I feel when I'm honing one-handed. So, I have
put a lot of effort into developing a delicate, two-handed stroke, where I
hold the razor in my left hand (I'm a southpaw), and use just the ring
finger of my right hand at the toe of the blade to make sure the razor
lies completely flat on the hone. Second, I need the sort of visual
feedback that I get from inspecting the edge either with a loupe or a
microscope. Otherwise, I simply can't tell what progress I'm making,
if any. And this leads me to the hub of the problem.

With whichever razor I try to hone, I seem to come to the same place:
The bevel looks decent enough to the naked eye, but under the scope
the edge is revealed to be jagged and uneven, looking, as I've said
elsewhere, like a distant range of mountains seen against a pale
sky. Based on my research, my strong hunch is that until I can get the
edge to be quite straight and perfectly even, which is how
a commercially-produced razor blade edge looks, there's no point in
trying to advance to the next phase of sharpening. I realize that a
straight and even edge does not mean that the razor is sharp; however,
I am convinced that a straight edge is necessary, though not
sufficient, for a good shave.

I have tried about every strategy I have seen discussed at
straightrazorplace, including the fabled pyramid, without getting past
the jagged edge stage. I'm hoping that by making this very specific
complaint, I might wind up with whatever piece of the puzzle I seem to be
missing. I'd especially appreciate hearing from successful honers who
check their work with a microscope, so that I'll have some basis for
comparison. I don't know if I'll ever get to a place where I can
dispense with visual scrutiny of the razor's edge, but I'm certainly
not there now. The last time I tried the "oh heck i'll just do a
couple pyramids and then the shave test" approach, I instantly
regretted it.

Any and all help appreciated.

peace,
denis

huh, I can definately sypathize with you. its frustrating. My grandfather was a barber and I watched him countless times hone and give shaves effortlessly, as if he was born with a straight razor in his hand. But when i shave and handle the razor over the hone I feel as if im all thumbs. But then I just remind myself that my grandfather (rest his soul) was a barber for 60 years. He started off just like myself (back in 1907)in learning to shave and maintain a razor, and just think he had to shave other men! So, I don't give up and you shouldn't ethier. I just tell myself that someday I will too have that skill.

Denis,

OK, this won't be popular, but what the heck...

See that DMT you have sitting over there on the desk? That's your new best friend. It's probably a 325 grit, right? That's OK. It'll still help us out...

Grab your junkiest razor, and put some electrical tape on the spine. Now start doing laps. Every 50 laps or so, take a look at the edge under your microscope. Keep doing this until the edge looks nice and straight. (This came up in a thread titled "DMT Breakthrough!" Might be worth reading...)

Pyramids and other conservative honing approaches are for razors that are nearly shave-ready. They work well for putting a final polish on an already nice edge. If you have a 325, I'd recommend doing some extra laps on the 4K before you start doing pyramids.

I honed up a seven-day set of vintage Dovos last week. All seven had bad edges--rounded, chipped, etc. I worked on each of them for about an hour on my DMT 1200-grit hone, removing the chips and damaged metal. Once I had that edge established, it took five to 10 minutes to put the final polish on them with my higher grit hones.

I think one major cause of newbie honing struggles is getting past edge damage and having a clean bevel to work with. If the bevel is properly set, one pyramid will be more than enough to polish it. Yes, a Norton 4K is capable of getting you past major damage. But it will take a long time and some skill, which at this phase you're still developing.

I definitely empathize with you. I struggled with honing for hundreds of hours, too, and it wasn't until I figured out the lower grit range that I was able to get consistent edges.

Just 2 cents from a fellow learner...

Josh

Each person has their own skill set, I'm with X on this as it works for me as well. Only you can determin if it will work for you, hense his suggestion of the junker razor to learn on. This may not work for you but the advice is sound, you need to know that you have a good bevel to build on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

Each person has their own skill set, I'm with X on this as it works for me as well. Only you can determin if it will work for you, hense his suggestion of the junker razor to learn on. This may not work for you but the advice is sound, you need to know that you have a good bevel to build on.

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I think you meant Josh:o

For all the stuff I bought what works for me best is a combination of barber hone and finisher. (fricitonite, paste).
If you're improvising with the honing by going two hands, at least make sure you use a uniform x pattern. My edges looked overly serrated or wavy when I started and tried taking advantage of the width of the norton and using an X-pattern.

<<<Based on my research, my strong hunch is that until I can get the
edge to be quite straight and perfectly even, which is how
a commercially-produced razor blade edge looks, there's no point in
trying to advance to the next phase of sharpening.>>>

Okay, two thoughts on this.

If your razors are older, antique store type finds then I'm with the coarse hone, remove the oxidized edge school.

But, if your razors are new I have different thought. Your statement says maybe there is not point moving on until you get a straight smooth edge on the earleir stones. Could you possibly be lapping away endlessly looking for this initial "perfect" edge and have now ver honed and have a jagged wire edge?
There is a point where that iunitial edge just develops and you need to go to step two. I over honed every razor I tried way back when I started before realizeing I was going too far.

Just a thought.
Tony

Makes sense about the wire edge. Dispense with the optics for a while and try just the thumb nail test and be pleased if it passes that clean and crisp off the 4k and the 8k.

PuFF

I agree with loosing the optics. I think that with them you may be over thinking the blade. Unless you look after each stroke. How do you know that you haven't over honed?

Phil