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I have a DD Goldedge -- if the thing just looks at a hone it gets sharp. It is aweseome, so easy to hone.
I also have a Wonderedge -- it is a bear to hone. I just put in down out of frustration. The metal seems so much harder than the Goldedge. I know the Wonderedges have the reputation, but I'll take the Goldedge any day.
Anyone else have similar experience, or I am just nuts. :shrug:
KNT
The WonderEdge is harder steel, that was part of the mystic, they have a special frozen blade...
I didn't notice to much of a difference on the upper grits but on the lower grit it did take a little more time to establish the bevel...
Also I noticed that like most "Frozen Temper" blades the WE loves pasted strops... IMHO
No, you are absolutely correct - you need to mail that wonderedge to me and enjoy your life to the fullest, there is only so much time, why waste it in frustration.
yeah, those things are junk, I will take it off your hands.
what is this a joke of some sort? they are certainly no junk - just a source of endless frustration - nice try mr. joke - the line is closed :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by joke1176
I think that in general the harder the steel on a blade the better it does on a diamond pasted strop.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Thanks. Now that I know, there is .25 diamond paste in the WE's future....
Don't listen to those guys. Both the Wonderedge and Goldege are good shavers and worth at least $10-$15 each. I will be willing to go as much as $18 if it includes shipping!
I can certainly confirm that softer steels, ala wapi's are not fond of the diamond paste. An amazing edge superfine edge and then... bleah.
Soft steel is easy to hone though and can maintain an "good" edge quite well. It's a shame that the dd is so expensive I am starting to understand the appeal of good steel.
- Bob
:w
There is no difference in the steel or the processing of it in any of the Ducks,they are all the same except for the handles,and cosmetics.See below,So any differences in the way they hone is in perception.This is from the former owner of the company
Best regards Gary
This is courtesy of John Crowley
I took this from the verbage of a DublDuck Wonderedge sale on eBay. I contacted the guy and asked him to ask his uncle if it is true that what seperated the Wonderedge from a Goldedge was the Wonderedge is cryo hardened carbon steel.
His uncle responded that there was absolutely no difference in the steel or hardening of any of the DublDuck razors. He says the only difference is the handles!!!!! This is from Pearlson son himself! Still want to pay $400 for a Wonderedge?
Dubl Duck Wonderedge 5/8 Straight Razor. BRAND NEW and in the original box. This razor comes from the private collection of one of the founders of the company. It is one of two of the only remaining brand new in-the-box razors in existence. Billed as the "World's Finest Razor" it is made of Solingen Steel which is the finest and best manufactured steel in the world. In 1957 my family closed Pearlduck, a business that was started in the late 1920's by Carl Bresnick and David Perlson, my grandfather. It was run by them and my two uncles for the entire time, although Carl Bresnick retired shortly after the partnership. The razor my uncle gave me to post here is in its original, unopened box. The photos are of its "sister" which he retains. As you can see, the polished brass and blade are pristine and the razor is perfect. This razor was probably manufactured some time in the early 50's I do not have a Pay pal account, so payment has to be made by check or cashiers check. Item will be shipped the moment you tell me payment is in the mail.
If what Gary was told is true then we have all been paying way to much for DD's all along, and the difference in the feel on the hone is all a product of our rabid imagination.....
Hmmmmmm going to have a look into this....
But if any of you have any of these no good WE to sell please feel free to PM me :)
Tis why I love my 6/8th SP1 sooo much.
I think maybe the elder Pearlson is suffering from the ravages of old age. I had questioned the seller about his claim for his Wonderedge concerning the exclusivity and he never answered me. The fact is the Wonderedge is cryo hardened and is different than the others.
Has far has I know the history this is right plus you can tell there is a diferenceQuote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I have heard the cryo hardening only on the internet,and just in the last few years.I have ownned some Wonderedges since the 60,s and never heard of cryo until recently.I have never seen any literature or anything from the company saying it was so(just hearsay) please let us know your sources(not trying to be contentious,just interested in seeing something definitive).Otherwise it is just rumor.I really am interested in seeing something regarding the sources.John Crowley (the guy that was in touch with the former owner)has started a thread concerning this http://straightrazorpalace.com/showthread.php?t=18180 (perhapswe can confirm,or dispel the rumor)Best regards Gary
I don't know that much about steel hardening, so I'm wondering, with some skepticism I might add, what "cryogenic hardening" is all about.
I know they quench red hot steel into an oil or water bath, so it becomes incredibly hard and brittle. If I understand correctly, the steel then needs to be "de-hardened" (called tempered) to some extent, to lend it some sturdiness again. So I don't really see what "cryogenic treatment" could do for a blade, except for selling it a bit better...
Maybe Russel Baldridge or one of the other knife makers can shed some light in the darkness here.
I don't know about straight razors, but a cryogenically treated rifle barrel will become more accurate after the treatment by being immersed in liquid nitrogen.
As stated before I'm not an expert, but from what I'm told by the rifle builders, the liquid nitrogen treatment somehow lines up the metal molecules to make them more uniform. I'm assuming the straight razors would be the same.
Just an FYI for anyone with a blade and a liquid nitrogen tank...
Cryo-tempering does not involve simply plunging into the nitrogen. The temperature needs to be brought down slowly. I always assumed that cryo-tempering for razors was a bunch of hooey and just a gimmick for one particular website to sell overpriced razor blades. With that bias, and with my liquid nitrogen tanks, I cryo-tempered some safety razor blades. In order to avoid bias and the evaluation phase, I gave both cryo-tempered and normal blades to my wife for her to code them so that I would not know which were which. The result was that I was 6 for 6 in identifying the blades. This was because 3 of them lasted about a week each and 3 of them lasted at least 2 weeks.
Someday, I'm going to try this test with straight razors.
Sounds like it might have some potential for replacing viagra the way its makng those blades last twice as long(Id be satisfied with a 10% increase)
Cryo treating metal aligns the crystalin structure of the metal- it DOES work to extend the life span and increase the durability of a metal item, tho it does not replace case hardening or tempering.
Check out these:
A brief explanation
A chart of extended life from cryo treating
And a real world example of the effects on a disc brake rotor
In fact, the best guitar strings I have used were Cryo treated. The lasted longer, kept tune better, and resisted rusting much better not to mention had a slightly brighter sound.
How does it align the crystal structure? You have jumped from them saying it changes the crystal structure to this concept of aligning the structure.
It converts more austentite to martensite making it harder.
From my understanding, you would have to re-heat and then do a controlled cooling to initiate the phase change you're describing. Granted I could be wrong as I'm just beginning my experience in materials engineering (besides, I'm actually Biomed Engineering).Quote:
Originally Posted by ernestrome
However, my intuitive understanding of cryo-hardening is that it works in the same manner as stress hardening. In stress hardening, you apply (usually) tension until the material begins to plastically deform, and then return it to an unstressed state. Thus, the crystal structure becomes more aligned, some dislocations are removed, and most importantly in the future it will require a greater initial force (stress) before the material begins to deform. I will check into this further, but it stands to reason in my mind that cryo-hardening would work the same as a compressive strain hardening through similar mechanisms.
Like I said, don't quote me on this until I verify it.
Does anyone know what particular alloy of steel is used? That would help greatly in property research.
I have a Dovo #41 Fritz Bracht pre WW II Inox. That I had cryogenically hard by Texas Knife Makers Supply. It made very significant difference in this blade. It would not hold an edge until it was treated. It now performs the way I expect a Inox blade to perform.
I am not to sure what they meant when in the old days they said frozen, ice,or cold tempered...
My familiarity with Cryo-dropping has to do with rifle barrels, and the "supposed" benefits of doing the processes..
As others have posted the temperature must be lowed gradually down to -373 F the benefits are to include less harmonic vibration, better accuracy, a slicker bearing surface, more velocity, easier cleaning etc:etc:etc: there have been tests to confirm all these claims so I guess there are tangible benefits to getting metal cryo'd
I don't for a minute believe that this is what any razor manufacturer was doing though... I think it was more like the newer Dovo Ice Hardened Blades...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chancecatalyst
I was right... about being wrong that is. It is indeed due to further trransformation of the austenitic phase to the martensitic phase. Please ignore my previous blathering...:w
No, cryo allows retained austentite to convert to martensite.Quote:
Originally Posted by chancecatalyst
I'm no expert, i have learned this by following the discussions of those who have expertise.
Afaik, cryo is not related or analagous to work hardening.
Thanks.
I propose a test. Somewhere amongst us there must be a Goldedge and a Wonderedge that are useless/chipped or broken/beyond repair. I'm pretty sure I could arrange some testing here at school. I don't know about tensile testing, but the key thing would be to manage to get samples under a Scanning Electron Microscope, where any hardening should be evident as a higher martensitic composition of the microstructure.
As Glenn said, I don't think they were doing controlled cooling to such drastically low temperatures for these vintage blades, but still, if there's enough of a difference that people can supposedly tell, then it should be visible in the microstructure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ernestrome
Heh, see previous post. My public display of ignorance is thus complete.
We'd need a few to be sure it wasn't sure to individual heat treat differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by chancecatalyst
I haven't had the pleasure to hone or shave with a wonderedge... yet.
But my Goldedge is the best to hone and shave with.
-80s
You will need at least 3 of each for it to be a valid scientific experiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by chancecatalyst
Quote:
Originally Posted by poona
True, but I'm trying to work with the small probability of getting even one of each. Well, finding several broken goldedges might not be so bad, but wonderedges...
In any case, since the basis of the test is the difference experienced by those honing the two, I was thinking if we could go on the experience of someone who has honed several/many of each type as a measure of consistency/deviation. Yes, I know that still doesn't make it scientific. I'm more than willing to draw up a completely scientific proposal as soon as we round up the 6+ test subjects:D