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Tonight I was testing a razor I just honed- still more to go. I have done decently on at least 13 razors, coming close or equal to my benchmarks. I then took my new shavette-sanguine and took a couple strokes. The difference was significant even to the benchmark razors honed by a honemeister.
The question is, will we be able to get a str8 at the same sharpness level as a de blade? I've just stopped when the blade gets to HHT.
any thoughts?
Headdoc
Can you explain your honing process in a bit more detail? For example, the stones you're using to get you to HHT? Many of us can get our edges to pass the HHT on a surprisingly low grit stone. My edges routinely pass HHT on a 4000 grit stone, but I'd never shave off that grit. HHT is not the pinnacle test for shaving sharpness. I've read in the past that some members have said when they get their edges into the wicked sharp arena, an edge can go from passing HHT to actually failing it once it's super sharp (the edge is so keen that the "teeth" or micro-serrations are gone); although I'm by no means an expert honemeister, I can say that every edge so far that I've gotten to shaving sharpness has ALWAYS passed the HHT and very easily with coarse hair (the sharper my edges the easier it pings the hair in half).
Chris L
The first tenet in straight razordom really is accurate: "The ultimate test is the shave test".
I know, I know, I didn't give an answer to your question!:cool:
I have the Norton 6oo/1k and the 4k/8k, Chinese Water stone, strops with CrOx. The stones have been lapped with the Norton Lapping stone and the Chinese has been lapped with wet sandpaper on a marble slab. i used the Forum methods of lapping. I rarely use the 1k and this only to grind down a blade that has a chip or is compromised with pits.
I use the pyramid methods on the 4k/8k to getting my edges sharp. I finish on the Chinese and then the Cr/ox on a flatbed strop (Balsa). It then strop on leather.
My technique is maybe a bit young as I've been doing this for a couple months. I have had some good success. The best has been with Sheffield Steel on razors that have no curves or smiles. Their blades are relatively square shaped. :shrug:
Headdoc
Since there are no other takers yet, Headdoc, I'll pipe in again. With your current honing set up can you get a straight as sharp as a DE blade? Yes, I believe you could. The challenges as you've found already since you've mentioned you're having more luck with some razors than others are not only perfecting technique, but also recognizing when you have to adapt your technique to work around each razor's idiosyncrasies and minor or major defects. THAT'S the toughest part for me. The marker test is IMO the single most effective visual aid in honing bar none. It reveals situations where a person could be honing forever and never get an entire edge shaving sharp without realizing from the marker test that part of an edge may not be making contact with the hones.
I have a Chinese 12K and I'm glad I do. A polishing stone for that price the size of a brick? What's not to love? That said, it's a slow, slow, slow stone. I can do hundreds of passes on a 12K checking the bevel under 20x or 40x magnification and see that putting a superb polish on the bevel would take hundreds more laps.
IMO if you took the time to get the best out of that stone, then move to the chrome strops, you could definitely have super sharp edges.
The new DE blades I have in my medicine cabinet that are gathering dust when viewed under mag clearly show a triple bevel.
I think you're on the right track!
Chris L
I don't honestly think you can get as sharp as a DE blade. But you can sharpen the straight to and edge that shaves better than a DE edge.
I don't kow if you have tried to shave off your 8k yet? You out to give it a go. Working with just that one stone to get the most polish it has to give can help improve your technique with it and can get you some really nice shaves in the process.
Once you think you have maxed out the 8k, and you should be getting OK or better shaves off it, see what each of your finishing options can do. Separately. I'm not a big believer in multiple finishing steps. I think that when we make this overcomplicated with to many steps we hurt our ability to gain skill with any one tool and thereby our result.
I've tried finishing with paste, any one of several barbers hones, wood ash on leather, and just the 8000 itself. I find each of them can be sufficient by itself.
currently my most common progression is to finish up on the 8000, then shave. If the edge is very close I'll go back to the 8000 for a couple of strokes and see what happens. If the edge is actually a bit worse than that I'll do five strokes on a barbers hone then try the shave again. Usually within 15 strokes with the barbers hone I've got a comfortable shave.
I only like the pastes on my German razors anymore. These are the razors I think get the sharpest the edge off these always feels more 'brittle' I'd say it feels harsher, sharper, and more fragile. If I really go to the finest edge with it I don't like the shave as much. With these the paste seems to retain the sharpness but 'soften' it somehow so the shave is more comfortable.
My Sheffields are the easiest to get a nice shaving edge on. these always feel silky smooth and really com up to perfection really nice with my favorite barbers hone.
My American razors seem to like the 8000 a lot. If I'm on my game when honing these come off the 8k with a good chance of having a comfortable shaving edge. Though they often don't feel as silky as the Sheffields, they aren't as brittle as the Germans and give my a nice compromise between the two.
For comparison my DE blades used in a shavette feels even more brittle than the German razors and very harsh. I've thought of taking one to the pastes for a few strokes to see if that softens the edge and feels better.
Yes, it can be as sharp. If sharp were the only criteria to a lack of pulling we'd all be golden a long time ago. A DE blade, at a minimum, is a work of "art" in its perfection of machine measured sharpness combined with perfect smoothing polish. We do the same thing with a straight by combining the art of honing with the underappreciated art of stropping. The DE edge is supported across its entire length by a support structure inside the head of the blade and the DE blade has a smaller surface area than the straight blade, which both give the DE blade a huge advantage in comfort, cut, and the sensation of a smooth shave.
As if that wasn't enough of a hurdle, many DE blades are created by heat fusion of a teflon type coating infused into the blade edge during manufacture that makes them shave very smoothly. This process is proprietary and makes the DE blade edge ultra smooth. Smoother than the steel alone would support.
So, we can make an edge as sharp and nearly as smooth, but making it shave so that it feels exactly the same isn't really possible, but it can seem of equal quality, but only when you learn to hone, strop, and shave; all three, at the highest quality.
I can see and feel the difference. To me, A shavette seems also to provide a much smoother shave then a DE razor. That's what attracted me to str8's.
I have achieved that smoothness and closeness particularly with Sheffield razors.
I am having trouble with two of my razors, one Reynolds and another Torrey. At about 3/4 up the blade, it is not as sharp as the lower. The pictures posted have arrows pointing to where the blade does not have the HHT level sharpness. I have worked some on them, but I stopped to try to get some advice. Any advice to get the whole blade consistently sharp.
Thanks
Headcoc
That is interesting.
I've been honing a new wapi, but I've also been adjusting my honing technique. I used to hone using my "other" hand stabilizing the toe of the blade but after doing some experiments I've found that only using one hand appears to lead to better results.
What I also found was exactly the same as you the 1/3 or the blade furthest from my hand took far longer to get sharp. I'm guessing it is due to the reduced pressure and control that far away from your honing hand.
Not exactly helpful to you I'm afraid.
Barney
You sure you dont have a double bevel? Looking at the pics, it looks like uneven pressure was used else the blade is warped. This has caused the uneven bevel width and most probably the reason behind the sharpness not being uniform throughout the edge.
Just some thoughts.