Which hones?

I want to try my hand at honing.

I have purchased 8 vintage razors 3 of which I am wiling to learn on and the rest I would like to hone to a point where I can have a rotation. I intend on having one of the razors honed by someone who knows what they are doing. I've also purchased a tony miller 4 sided combo strop and diamond paste for final polishing.

Now I'm wondering what sort of hones I should get. I'm leaning towards a Norton 4000/8000. Then honing it flat with wet dry sandpaper sitting on a sheet of glass. I was also looking at the DMT 8EE. From what I have read via reviews this hone seems to cut quicker than the 4000, but leave a finer edge than the 8000. Something tells me that it might be better for me to learn on a hone that is not so aggressive as the DMT.

Any suggestions / recommendations?

I'm fairly new, but I've done quite a lot of research, so I'll share what I know, and hopefully some wiser individuals can comment :)

The DMT 8EE supposedly does a great job, but it gives less feedback as to how your edge is doing. The Norton is MUCH more thoroughly documented as the DMT is a relatively new discovery for our purposes. For starting out, it will be much easier for you to follow proven techniques for the Norton than experimenting on your own with the DMT.

Your flattening (lapping) method with sandpaper will work just fine :)

You may also consider acquiring a cheap Chinese 12k (like $30) for putting a finer edge on after the Norton. Some people are able to get a good shaving edge straight off the Norton with practice. I have relatively sensative skin and fine facial hair, so I needed the higher grit to be able to get a comfy shave, but YMMV. I would practice first for a while with just the Norton (all those razors should give you plenty of practice!) before investing in more stones tho.

Good luck! It's not really as difficult/mysterious as it's made out to be :)

stu,

Since I am by no means a journeyman honer, I will offer my opinions not suggestions. The razors I use for daily shaves are both new and old. I started this straight razor shaving with following the sound suggestion of getting a razor honed by one of the masters to establish a baseline. Having done that, and it worked well, I then started buying hones to attempt sharpening on my own. After acquiring and trying many of the natural stones, diamond embeded plates, and man-made waterstones, I have settled on the Norton 4K/8K waterstone followed by a coticule.

Last night I honed a nice Puma I bought on ebay many. many months ago. It's a very handsome 6/8 #91 which I would take out and admire often and put away saying to myself that I would wait with honing it until I felt that I wouldn't harm it with the attempt. The thumb pad and arm hair mowing tests before honing indicated that it did need further sharpening. Which is what I did on the Norton 4k/8K in the pyramid scheme and followed that up with about 50 laps on the coticule. This morning I stropped it and shaved with it. The resulting save was good - not the best, but good. I believe it needs a bit more work to further polish the edge; however, were I to do nothing more, it would be a very shavable edge.

So, there you go. If you choose to get a razor already honed by one of the masters, you can probably go forever with occasional touch-ups on a coticule. If you want to assay honing, add a Norton 4K/8K to your battery and you may have all you need to hone a more needy edge.

good luck, good honing, and good shaving,

I am by no means an expert, my motto is "Always learning"...I will also offer you my opinion and not a suggestions. From what I have read, the Norton 4/8K has been a corner stone in honing for sometime, and I would say for the price it may very well continue to be so. I have read a few honemeisters attesting to the quality of the Norton, and I have one myself...After giving it a nice lap sanding the edges down, I have had no complaints with the edges it has provided my razors.

Good luck,

Allen

As another learner, apprentice, what have you. I would like to say....what they said^...

Something else to think about is....The Norton combo doesn't cost much and gets you into the game. If you end up not liking it, or honing in general you can recoup your money in the BST. If however you are like many of us it will be a nice start to a collection.

Good points everyone. As I suspected, It's always better to go with the standard that has lots of documentation than some new fangled super something. I will also consider getting the Chinese 12k combining shipping is always a good thing when you send things to Sweden. Thanks for the help!

Sarty-
How much time do you have left in med school?

If I was buying all over from scratch, I'd get a DMT D8EE and a 0.5 chrome oxide paddle (no lapping). Add a fine barber hone of about 10k or so (lap it) to fill in the gap between the D8EE and the chrome oxide.

If I was worried about dropping/dinging one of my razors, I'd add a DMT D6E or D8E. (I've done both...)

Now normally in these type of threads I'm all for the new guy getting a Norton for they very reasons already stated. But with your location, I'd say you might want to look at Belgin Coticle. There are a couple of guys here who could steer you directly to the source. Saving the shipping on a nicely sized yellow would probably make up the difference in that and the cost of a Norton. Most guys want a Coticle at some time anyway and getting one straight from the source would be an oppertunity I couldn't pass up.

I really dislike the sandpaper method of lapping a hone. Especially if it's a brand new hone. Ask your supplier if they'll lap it flat for you. I charge $5 per surface for this and you'll start out with a flat hone. When I did this as a demo at the Massachusetts Get Togetha, the two guys watching were really surprised. The difference is that big.

I like the DMT 8EE as it cuts steel fast but doesn't give as good an edge for shaving as if you were to finish on a belgian coticule. I'd say about 7 out of 10 guys who use a Norton eventually come to me for a coticule. An 8000 grit diamond, coticule, and Norton will all yield DIFFERENT edges. There is no standard.

I get what you guys are saying.


I have access to very inexpensive shipping, as my family is in the US and can send me packages as a gift using any shipping method I like, thus avoiding the dreaded European import duty. And because of the weak dollar it is most likely cheaper for me to purchase in the US.

Should the Belgian coticule be used i lieu of the the 4000/8000? Can I shave directly off of it or should I have a 12k stone as well? I would like the ability to set the bevel on vintage razors that I am restoring. Will the coticule have the ability to do this? Is there a huge difference in the yellow to blue coticule? from what I read, the reason the coticule works so well is it's grain structure, which is the same in both stones. The blue consists of about 30% garnets and is therefore a bit less aggressive than the yellow stone but, on the other hand, is more durable.

Also, do you think there is a sufficient amount of documentation (i.e. Honing pyramids, tips and advice) on the coticules to make it a wise purchase for a newbie? I'm all for buying the the best the first time in order to save on waste and on money.

so what's the best combo for a total newbie? I want the ability to recondition razors, and to learn on something with enough documentation to keep me on track while I learn. maybe a coticule and a somewhat coarse DMT? Ardennes coticules also offers a blue coticule bonded to a 600 grit synthetic whetstone, would this be an option as a two in one, or is 600 to coarse?( bottom of this page http://uk.ardennes-coticule.com/index.asp?ID=385 )

I have already ordered my combo pasted paddle strop. And a whole mess "o" diamond paste (from .5 to 40 micron), perhaps that should come into play as well, (maybe I should have waited on that purchase, or maybe just use it as my strop and as a sort of "travel hone" for when I go on holiday)

Thanks for the help!

Unfortunatly I can't be to specific about the use of the Coticle as I'm still waiting on being able to afford one.

That said shipping won't be that cheap because we are talking about sending rocks around the globe. Hones aren't exactly light. Unless you have acess to something I don't kow about it would cost me roughly $40 to send you a Norton as a gift.

Thats the reason I suggested the Coticle. With you being in Europe, it might be worth the adventure to actually go to the mine and pick your stone so to speak. There are guys who have done exactly that and they say its an experience.

You can shave directly off of it, and it has a lot of sharpening power. Some guys like the blue to replace the 4000 and then the yellow to finish up and shave off of.

If you can get together with any of the guys over there you could get a ton of hands on instruction and shortcut your learning process.

It's about $29 dollars to ship a stone here. To ship the same stone within europe It will cost me about 15 euro. With todays exchange rates that is about 2-3 dollars price difference. So it comes out about even. When you factor in the excange rate it would actually be significantly cheaper for me to buy a coticule from the US and have it shipped here. So I'm open to all options.