don't want to mess it up... questions about honing

I've read through the Honing FAQ index and search the forum... and I have been able to formulate a few questions (I don't want to damage my razor so I'm asking before trying :) )

I am new at straight shaving... so I ordered a shave ready razor. I have two questions about taking care of it:

1) if I strop 25 passes on a leather strop before every shave and two times a week 25 passes on linen before the passes on leather, is it enough to maintain it in a shave ready condition (assuming that I do not drop it) or do I have to use a hone (or the linen side of the strop more often)?

2) if I have to use a hone, which one do I have to use:
a) a barber stone like Dixie
b) a natural hone like a Yellow Coticule, a Thuringian or a chinese stone
c) an artificial hone like a Shapton

3) if I have to use a natural stone, I understand that I have to make it flat before: will a DMT8C be good enough?

I am not - yet :p - interested in restoration... but assuming that I will win the next lottery, is this set good for honing a "not shave ready" razor:
a DMT8C to flatten the hone, a blue Coticule (or a DMT8EE or a Norton4/8), a yellow Coticule (or a turingian/chinese stone), newspaper.

Thanks

1) no, this is just to realign the edge and to give you a good shave. your edge deteriorates over time regardless of the leather. Don't know about the linen. I don't use it.

2) for now, either a yellow coticule (www.theperfectedge.com) or a pasted paddle (www.thewellshavedgentleman.com) will suffice.

3) If you go for the coticule you can also lap it with sandpaper. if you have only 1 coticule and only use it for keeping your razors sharp, paper will suffice. I have the DMT8C and I really like it, howard (theperfectedge) selld both DMTs and coticules, so you can combine shipping. otoh there will be plenty of opportunity to get rid of your money. no need to rush things.
I vote for the norton instead of the blue, but that is just my preference. others would say it the other way around.

I know alot of guys prefer a Norton over any other natural stone. I personally would suggest that you try the Shapton line of hones if you can afford it. While I don't have one myself they are top of the line and in my opinion they will be easier to use then a norton. I find my Norton to cause me nothing but problems but have no problem using any other hone.

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Originally Posted by Ockham

1) if I strop 25 passes on a leather strop before every shave and two times a week 25 passes on linen before the passes on leather, is it enough to maintain it in a shave ready condition (assuming that I do not drop it) or do I have to use a hone (or the linen side of the strop more often)?

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I personally do about 25 on the linen every day then I do 25 or more on the leather. This smooths the edge and keeps it shaving well for quite a while. Eventually you will need to touch it up on a stone but not for some time.

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Originally Posted by Ockham

2) if I have to use a hone, which one do I have to use:
a) a barber stone like Dixie
b) a natural hone like a Yellow Coticule, a Thuringian or a chinese stone
c) an artificial hone like a Shapton

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When you are asking about which stone to get you will get almost as many opinions as shavers.

I think that when starting out the most cost effective stone on the market is the Norton combination stone 4000/8000 grit. This will get a pretty rough razor shaving or touch up an edge. Many guys though want something smoother than the edge it leaves though here I think the pasted paddle option with very fine paste is great.

In fact you can keep a razor well honed on just a pasted paddle for a very very long time even if you don't own any stones at all provided you have a good selection of grits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ockham

3) if I have to use a natural stone, I understand that I have to make it flat before: will a DMT8C be good enough?

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More than good enough. I use wet dry sandpaper on my counter top to flatten my stones, this is the cheapest option. Shapton makes a flattening stone, and this is the most expensive option. Norton makes a flattening stone as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ockham

I am not - yet :p - interested in restoration... but assuming that I will win the next lottery, is this set good for honing a "not shave ready" razor:
a DMT8C to flatten the hone, a blue Coticule (or a DMT8EE or a Norton4/8), a yellow Coticule (or a turingian/chinese stone), newspaper.

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I've restored plenty of razors. Once the razor is nice and pretty again I use nothing that I didn't mention above. I use the sandpaper again, this time on the razor, to get out any larger nicks and set the bevel preparing the razor for honing. Then I move on to my 4000 and me 8000 for the major work in honing. I finish up in any one of several ways, whatever method takes my fancy really, but the pasted paddle is one way. I've done a final stropping on newspaper as a part of this process too, but more often I've skipped this step and never felt the lack.



Welcome and good luck.

Most every question has been answered already, I personally would recommend the Norton setup for around $120 it includes the Norton 220/1k the 4k/8k and the Norton lapping stone hard to beat for the price... The other thing is that the majority of people that restore and / or hone either use it or have used it so the amount of help available here is much larger...
I am by no means saying that this is a "better" set up than any other but it is the most cost effective....
Spent my 2 pennies here :D

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Originally Posted by matt

I know alot of guys prefer a Norton over any other natural stone. I personally would suggest that you try the Shapton line of hones if you can afford it. While I don't have one myself they are top of the line and in my opinion they will be easier to use then a norton. I find my Norton to cause me nothing but problems but have no problem using any other hone.

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I'm not clear on this. What is your basis for recommending the Shapton if you don't have one? Have you used someone else's?

I have no experience with Shaptons so my only objection to them for someone new to honing is their cost. They don't seem like a practical choice for a first hone purchase.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm not clear on this. What is your basis for recommending the Shapton if you don't have one? Have you used someone else's?

I have no experience with Shaptons so my only objection to them for someone new to honing is their cost. They don't seem like a practical choice for a first hone purchase.

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Very good point.

Some guys do find that honing just isn't their cup of tea, I'd be a shame to have a few hundred bucks in hones at that point.

Thank you guys. This was very helping.

Wildtim, I will follow your setup and strop on linen before my 25 passes on the leather (before every shave).

In the meantime, I'll look for a finishing hone (but can take my time; no rush)... I saw that The Perfect Edge is offering to flatten a hone for five bucks... so maybe it is not a bad idea to purchase only the yellow coticule "hone-ready" to keep the razor sharp, therefore avoiding to purchase all the stuff if I'm no good at honing. And if I like it, I can still go for the whole stuff.

Btw thank you Gssixgun for the tip about the Norton set (it is indeed affordable), and could be just the complement to a finishing hone.

As for the Shapton thing... I heard many wonderful things about those stones (aslo about the ones made by Spyderco)... So I was thinking: maybe it could battle against the well known natural stones... I didn't know those "ceramic on tempered Glass" have to be flattened too. I thought first that a hundred bucks for a 16000 grit was a good price, but haven't notice that the Diamond on Glass Lapping Plate cost reaches almost 300 bucks... oh dear... But do you know if one can flatten a shapton thing with, let's say a DMT8C ? Could be less expensive that way...

Thank you again guys; I'm sooo happy I found this website :y

Yeah, you could flatten the shaptons on a DMT (a diamond hone will flatten any stone that is softer than itself = everything except another diamond hone).

I think the shapton lapping plate is diamond as well, only it has a narrower tolerance for what is considered "flat." but the difference is unnecessary for razors, the D8C would be all you'd need.

Some more input:

25 passes on linen and 25 on leather is not a golden number or anything, you'll have to adjust the number of passes how much pressure you tend to exert, how fast you strop and the surface texture of your personal strop. 25 should get you headed in the right direction, but would be too few for my set of variables (closer to 40 or 60).

Good choice on the Coticule.

If you ever decide to go to stones lower in grit, I personally use, love and recommend the DMT's. Easiest maintenance, least fuss, fastest results, and they don't wear down over time. For my money, they cant be beaten. That said, I think natural stones are the way to go for finishing the razor, and you're already on that track.

Just remember, almost any combination of shaving/honing/stropping gear can be made to work if you take the time to figure things out.