uneven edge

Hi all,
I have a question,
I have a razor that I bought new and I have been trying to learn to hone on it, and I think I may have messed up the edge. When I look at the edge in the light, on one side the edge looks wider toward the point and thinner toward the heel, and on the opposite side, the edge is the opposite, wider toward the heel and thinner toward the point.

It's kind of hard to explain, I hope I was being clear. I am talking about the edge of the blade, the part thats laying flat against the stone when honing.
It seems to me I was probably applying to much pressure on the blade at the start of my away stroke and not enough on the end of the away stroke, and the same goes for the opposite side of the blade.

Any suggestions how to even out the edge again?
Thanks guys
Nick

Nick,

Can you tell us a little more about what you've done to the razor to this point? If you did two pyramids, for example, then you probably didn't cause the problem. If you decided to use two-handed pressure and back-and-forth strokes, then maybe you did cause it.

Chances are good that the razor has a little quirk of the grind that's causing this unevenness. Razors are hand-ground, and they are often somewhere shy of perfect.

Is there any chance that the blade was always this way and you just happened to notice it because you're worried about hurting it?

We'll figure this out. :)

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Razors are hand-ground, and they are often somewhere shy of perfect.

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Wow, what a diplomatic way of saying that. Fact is, a lot of razors are not flat and so, as Josh said, it is likely that the razor is to blame for it. Of course, there is still a chance that your honing sucks. Regardless, you have two options.

First, given that it is unlikely that you have already drastically altered the spine, you can try to correct it by being extremely diligent to ensure that you are applying even pressure. If the blade is flat, then the uneven bevel should be corrected with a little more honing.

Alternatively, or second, if you believe the blade is warped, then you have to SLIGHTLY alter your pressure. Before doing that, try the marker test which can be found by doing a search in the forum. Basically, you gently mark the very edge of the blade on both sides with a felt tip marker and then hone a couple of strokes. Examination of the removal of the blade markings will tell you how much and where metal is being removed during your honing strokes. If the removal is even, then you likely are now honing with even pressure on an apparently flat razor. If the blade is "somewhat shy of perfect," then you will have to use altered pressure to get a uniform bevel. I hone with a push/pull rather than left to right stroke. Say for instance that there is very little metal removal toward the heel on the side of the blade that is in contact with the hone during the pulling stroke, then I would make a mental note to "pull heel." (If I say it, I'm less likely to mix it up) That would remind me to use SLIGHTLY more pressure on the heel during the pulling stroke. With your blade as you described, I would say to myself "pull heel, push toe." It may sound stupid, but it reminds me which parts of which strokes to emphasize.

Remember to only SLIGHTLY alter the pressure! You can check your progress with the marker test, though a microscope would be more informative.

Good luck and I hope that was not confusing.

For further explanation of the altered pressure I was referring to, check out this thread.

The gradually tapering width of the bevel says that you are using uneven pressure. Make an effort to correct that.

Also, it is not absolutely necessary to have a perfectly uniform bevel width. If you try for that level of perfection you will slowly go nuts!:rant: When your just starting out use old ebay razors to practice on.

Just my two cents,:)

As already pointed out on this thread, there might be different causes to the unevenness of the bevel.
From what you describe, it's quite possible that your blade is warped, or grind, in such a way that the spine and the cutting edge are not entirely in the same pane. If you put the blade of your razor on a flat surface, with the entire spine touching the surface, the cutting edge should also be touching along its full length. You could try observing this with a shearing lightsource. It might very well be possible, in your case that the toe isn't touching at one side, while the heel may not touch if you flip it over on the other side. You could also look at the spine wear: if that's nice and even, the unevenness is caused by the razor's condition, and not by variable pressure in your honing stroke.
If it is nothing extremely severe, I wouldn't bother with trying to hone it out. The sharpness of an edge is in the perfect way the two sides of your bevel meet in the smallest possible line, when you're done. Not in the symmetry of those sides. Fumbling around with alternating pressure, has not been leading to great results for me.
I have an "off-axis" frameback in my rotation, that 's just a superb shaver, even though it displays the same kind of opposing bevel width as you described.

Just some additional thoughts,
Best of luck,

Bart.

+1 on not worrying about it IF you can get the razor shaving nicely. If you are struggling with it, though, the uneven bevels provide a clue as to why. They are a symptom of ... something. :)

Josh

Hey
Thanks for al the replies. It could be possible that the blade was uneven to begin with. But since I bought it I have tried honing on like 15 different occasions, so I could have possibly messed it up since then. I have tried doing it with 2 handed honing, so I might have been applying extra pressure to one side.
I will try the felt tip marker trick though and get a better understanding of what I'm working with.
My honing probably does stink, but I got a razor from Josh that he honed and I have honed it on 2 separate occasions myself and got it back to shave ready without messing it up. Which makes me think the blade on this other one might be warped.
Oh, and when I lay the blade flat against the sharpening stone and look to see if all the edge of the blade is touch the stone when all of the heel is and it is not on one side, there seems to be a gap under part of the edge on one side of the blade.
thanks again fellas
Nick

Nick,

what I do in such cases is "fumble" just a little bit with my honing stroke. What I mean with that, is that I drop, or lift, the part of the razor that protrudes the hone, just a little bit. It's actually the mere thought of doing that, that's often enough. Note however, the spine always needs to keep touching the hone. It's more difficult to explain, than to do actually.
I always pay notice on how the water runs over the edge during a honing stroke. If a razor is slightly warped, you'll clearly see the water running UNDER the part were the blade is not touching the stone. I then concentrate on making contact with the part of the edge that is about to leave the stone, due to the diagonal stroke from the X-pattern. When I see the water starting to run under the edge, that's were I do the "fumbling". I hope this somehow makes sense to you. I've attached a little illustration, out of my honing guide, that hopefully makes it a bit clearer. The words are in Dutch, but you'll get the picture. The arrow indicates the direction of the "fumbling".

Hope this helps,

Bart.

Bart, That looks like a good illustration of the rolling X stroke.

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Originally Posted by smythe

Bart, That looks like a good illustration of the rolling X stroke.

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Damn'. And I thought I was onto something.:(
I already hoped that for years to come, people would talk about the Bartstroke. I even imagined hosting master classes.
Damn' Damn' Damn'.
Have to go figure something else now.
:hmmm::hmmm:
;)

Bart.

Bart, does the "slijpsteen" need to have a rounded edge like in the photo for the fumbling to work?

Thanks

I quickly skimmed this thread but I don't think anyone has asked yet...

Never mind the razor, is your stone perfectly flat? (lapped)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Bart, does the "slijpsteen" need to have a rounded edge like in the photo for the fumbling to work?

Thanks

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The edge of the hone should always be slightly rounded. A sharp edge will create micronicks in the razors edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

The edge of the hone should always be slightly rounded. A sharp edge will create micronicks in the razors edge.

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I agree.
However, a DMT diamond hone can't be rounded, so I use my DMT-E as it is. Of course, the razor always sees a finer stone afterwards (in my case a coticule), that has rounded sides. But I never had problems with microchips off the DMT. And I do inspect my edges under magnification when I step up to a finishing hone.
Maybe a DMT is ever so sligtly rounded at the sides. It sure is no "hard" edge.

Bart.