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I have found that when I hone with one hand, as Lynn does in his video, I have trouble keeping the bade absolutely flat on the hone from heal to toe.
However, if I use my other hand to gently (and with no pressure) guide the tip of the blade, I get much better results.
Does this violate the honemeisters' code of ethics?
Here's my thought: considering that weight/ pressure ideally should be evenly distributed over the entire blade throughout honing; and the delicate nature of the thin micro-edge,
even a light touch, at some point along the blade (presumably with the second hand, or even one finger), other than that necessary to hold the razor at the shank, would that slight pressure not create a point of inequality, even though only ever so slight, but significant none-the-less?
Whatcha think?
Scott
(Edit: And - considering that a straight razor is, or should be, a lifetime investment, I'm not saying that the effects mentioned above would be noticed today, or next week. But what about 10 or 20 years from now?
You've seen those sad eBay specials with frowns and wierd edges. Ever wonder how they got that way?)
Oops... Here we go again. ;)
There has been heavy debate about this in the past.
If an extra finger for stability does the trick for you, then don't worry too much about it. I am sure that a razor can be made super sharp either way.
In my opinion, it's like when learning to play guitar. In the beginning everybody worries about his guitar hanging too high or too low. Later on you just develop a personal style, and wonder what the fuss was all about.
I'm sure someone will chime in to disagree.:)
Probably someone who never used both hands will say, you should use only one. And someone who never uses one hand will disagree with it.
Your razor doesn't care.
Kind regards,
Bart.
I also tried the one haneded method but found I coulden't control the blade as well at the end of the x stroke. Also, have blades that are irregular IE "wavey" or smiling. I just can't control the stroke as well w/ one hand.
While some may disagree, I don't believe it adds additional weight to the stroke.
Al
I almost exclusively use two hands to hone. I find I can manipulate the razor across the stone and use more advanced techniques with two handed method.
And no, for me it doesn't add any extra pressure but find that I can actually more accurately gauge how much pressure is being put on the razor.
Everyone is different though and YMMV.
You know this is like the do you shave with one or both hands?
Out come the ambidextrous to say there is only one way.
It's not rocket science. It's simple. If you press too hard whilst honing and especially with a full hollow razor, you will never get a good razors edge. A one handed stroke tends to be a light stroke. But just so long as you use your second hand to guide, position or hold and not press, there is no difference.
Maybe the end justifies the means… if you are getting good results… then why worries?
I believe one should use just enough pressure to keep the blade in contact with the hone during the stroke…. This is just my opinion, I ma in no way suggesting you should use pressure, you situation may be different.
Everyone’s “dexterity” is different and if you use finger from other hand to keep it in contact then you should be fine.
Now if you ARE putting pressure with the extra finger… and don’t know it…. Then you have a problem.
Ask yourself… is the shave good?
If not, then you need to reevaluate the other finger.
With that out of the way here is a hint that works for me… honing with one hand… only the weight of the blade… forefinger on the tang (to keep blade steady)... if the tip of the blade refuses to contact the hone during any part of the stroke, try lifting your elbow or shoulder… whichever is comfortable.
You could also adjust your sitting position or the height of the hone in relation to your arm.
Like Bart, I kind of thought "here we go again" when I saw this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
In theory, I agree with Scott. But, I could use his post above and modify it by asking the rhetorical question something like: "Even if the smallest amount of the blade's edge does not make contact either at an absolutely equal pressure or not at all with the stone, wouldn't that create an inequality? "
I'm not saying that to be a smart alec in the least. IF a person has tried and simply can not seem to hone one handed without that blade's edge being absolutely perfect on the hone, IMO you have the same potential result as two handed honing. Some of us are shaky by nature and getting shakier as we get older. Some, try as they might, just can't perfect one handed honing. I shudder to think that such a person should give up honing their own razors.
You may have guessed....depending on the razor and the stone I use, I find I also need two handed honing. I don't worry about it in the least. My goal is to set bevels and have consistently keen edges along the entire edge of a razor.
Actually, trying to master one handed honing after watching Lynn's DVD many many times and failing in utter consistency, got me so frustrated that I almost abandoned straight razor shaving all together. Not good.
I don't doubt Scott's other point that years of two handed honing my result in visibly altered spines and uneven bevels. I haven't seen such things on my razors. I'm willing to pay that potential price. At this point, if I can hone my razors as sharp or sharper than I'd ever want them for shaving, have them shave comfortably without irritation, have the edges pass the HHT with my ultra-fine head hairs across every millimeter of the edge from heel to toe effortlessly......then I'm not concerned, and that's where I'm at.
I hope others don't give up this enjoyable pastime without trying to add an extra finger for control if they simply can't seem to master one handed honing.
Chris L
Oh my God... not again... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by shavindave
Read this thread " honing with two hands"
http://straightrazorpalace.com/showt...ht=hand+honing
Or change your keychain from one pocket to another. :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by smythe
But seriously, it's actually good advice, IMHO. Small changes in gesture, sometimes even just the thought of of a certain motion can alter your honing stroke just enough for having success at slightly warped blade.
Personally, depending on the razor I use both methods. I make sure when I use both hands the second hand does not rest on the razor but sits in front of the spine to stabilize it. it works for me but you do really have to be careful. I find even with my extra light touch if I have a razor that needs alot of honing unless I alter where on the spine the finger rests you will start to see a change in the bevel. So my answer is, for most people its best to use one handed honing. Its really like anything else you just have to work at it and it eventually works itself out. But having said that two handed is OK as long as you careful, very careful.
I'll use both hands and a little bit of pressure when I begin a progression to make sure the edge is completely even and equally prepped, then go to one handed very light pressure on the finishing stages.
It's all about the stroke and the touch guys. Keeping the elbow up helps with keeping the blade flat. The stroke is developed. You really want to develop the feel and touch. I have always found that by using the second hand, it is harder to find that right feeling. This might be easier for me to say considering the thousands of razors I have honed.
Considering the above, if it's two hands that works for you consistently, then that would be what you should use. I would not recommend this for newer guys who are already having so much trouble with so many things. Less is better. Simple is easier.......
Now define simple.........:w
Have fun.
Lynn
I found this was the trick that finally allowed me to go from two-handed to one-handed. Funny how something so simple can make such a big difference to technique!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
Having said that, I spent so long honing two-handed I was getting very good results from that too. :D
This statement has already been quoted -- folks, do take note! I wouldQuote:
It's all about the stroke and the touch guys. Keeping the elbow up helps with keeping the blade flat. The stroke is developed
recommend that you keep working on your stroke, I've found that the
one-handed technique will eventually be able to deliver the most even
stroke with just enough pressure to keep the razor flat on the hone.
Keep your elbow up and curl your pinky under the scales or spine if
necessary.
- Scott
I've used a two handed stroke on my Norton 4/8K combo and got acceptable results but I recently got a DMT D8EE and couldn't get it right ... till I tried only using one hand and in the space of 2 laps the razor went from not passing a HHT to scaring the hair in half.
I think that I was able to use a lighter stroke by only using one hand and where the DMT cuts fast that light stroke was needed where as on the Norton there is a little more "give" since it doesn't cut as fast.
Barney
I find that both techniques will produce equivalent results. It boils down to being able to lightly support the razor and simultaneously move it down the length of the stone.
Agreed, the one handed method is more traditional, and in fact I prefer it. But using two hands gets me more consistent results on coarser stones so I use it for bevel setting, then switch for the polishing stones.