Need Honing Assistance

Greetings.... I need help figuring out what to do sharpening a new straight razor.

I recently purchased as a Father's Day package (gift to myself celebrating my first) from Classic Shaving that included a "pre-sharpened" Solingen straight razor. Because it stated "pre-sharpened," I attempted shaving with it out of the box after I wiped away the shipping oil on the blade with a soft barber cloth. After watching Lynn's video, which was part of the package (awesome video, by the way, Lynn!!), I stropped the blade 20 times in the X pattern and began shaving (Illinois Barber Strop, one side leather, the other cloth that came with the package). However, it pulled my beard significantly and I immediately stopped. After I got over the disappointment, :rant: watched the chapter on honing in the video and order Norton's 4000/8000 combo hone. Here's a synapsis of what I've done to date:

-Did the pyramid pattern described in the video and attempted shaving; still pulled my beard just as much as before
-Tried more strokes on the 4000 side, then on the 8K side; same pulling
-Lost track of the various combos I've tried since then; the blade now pulls ever-so-slightly less, but still pulls and doesn't cut my facial hair.
-At one point, considered that maybe I've over-honed. But, it won't cut any arm hair either, so seriously doubt this is the case, especially because you can feel it pulling, not gliding over the top as describe in the video.

I've been using a Japanese feather razor off and on for a while now and really want to move into the "regular" straight razor world. Any help/advice you may have is greatly appreciated!! :shrug:

Thanks in advance,
Ryan

Don't worry about honning, the thing you need to be concerned about is stropping. Stropping is done before each shave, honing is done probably once every few years. So go back to that video and look at the chapter on stroping and master that.

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Originally Posted by jbcohen

Don't worry about honning, the thing you need to be concerned about is stropping. Stropping is done before each shave, honing is done probably once every few years. So go back to that video and look at the chapter on stroping and master that.

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Thanks.... I think I do a fairly decent job of stropping. I've watched that chapter more than a few times. In fact, if I have spare time, I'll go into my bathroom and strop 20-ish times for good measure along with running my hand up and down the strop as shown in the video. Granted, I could be stropping improperly, but I'm pretty sure I got that part.

Welcome!

First off, it's easy for me to say and hard for you to do, but try not to be frustrated at your initial less than stellar straight razor experience. Unfortunately, there are so many variables that must be in alignment for getting a great shave; pre-shave prep, stropping correctly, proper blade shaving angle, stropping correctly, skin stretching. leading with toe or heel of the razor during your passes rather than straight on (slicing the whiskers with a skewed pass rather than trying to chop the whiskers head on).

I think Lynn's DVD will forever be the top primer for straight razor shaving, and with very good reason. I'm so glad I purchased that DVD and even though I haven't watched it for going on a year, I wouldn't sell it to anyone! That said, it's an overview in many areas rather than a detailed step by step tutorial. Our shaving world is desperately lacking a detailed step by step close up tutorial on STROPPING. I would argue that the primary obstacle new shavers have to getting good shaves the first handful of times is incorrect stropping. It may sound crazy, but I think someone could easily put out a tutorial on stropping alone that could fill up an hour of time (different types of strops, pastes, proper technique, care of strops, repair of strops, making of strops, etc). I'm not a veteran straight razor shaver with decades under my belt, but I have learned to strop my razors effectively. I would even do a tutorial, but I don't have the proper video and sound equipment. A proper stropping tutorial to me would have extreme close-ups, and accurate sound to illustrate the sights, the sounds and the smells (A little Spinal Tap reference there) of stropping.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but initially a thorough proper stropping probably would have made for a better shave for you. Now that you've taken the razor to a hone, it's tough to say why the razor isn't shaving well.

I have two suggestions at this point: 1) Spend time very carefully honing with the weight of only the blade or extremely light pressure using only the 8000 side at this point and see where that gets you. This is bucking the pyramidic trend, but you'll be practicing your technique while avoiding the potential for just grinding down your edge going back and forth from the 4000/8000. Try even hundreds of passes on the 8000 side, checking the edge every 25 passes or so. Take your time. Spread it out over a few days time. If after that it's still not back to shaving sharp, something else is wrong. 2) send it out to be honed by someone, get it back and read all you can about stropping in the meantime.

Magnification is a great diagnostic tool in honing. Some don't find it necessary, but I've found that it absolutely helps me with my honing processes.

I hope even some of this helps. Keep at it!

Chris L

Can someone give me a direct link to the web site where the DVD is? I have a book by Dr. Moss, but the DVD would probably be a good idea. I appologize if I have hijaked this thread.

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Originally Posted by jbcohen

Can someone give me a direct link to the web site where the DVD is? I have a book by Dr. Moss, but the DVD would probably be a good idea. I appologize if I have hijaked this thread.

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Lynn has put his DVD material on You Tube AFAIK. I'm sorry, I don't know the links, but I'm sure others will help here.

Chris L

Use THIS link to find the 3 parts to Lynn's DVD.

There used to be a sticky that had info. on how and where to buy Lynn's DVD. Hang on, I'll go check.....

.....

Yes, it's a sticky in the B/S/T forum. Here.

James.

Classicshaving.com has the DVD.

After you get done with the 8k return to the strop, say about 100 passes.

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Originally Posted by Chrisl

Our shaving world is desperately lacking a detailed step by step close up tutorial on STROPPING. It may sound crazy, but I think someone could easily put out a tutorial on stropping alone that could fill up an hour of time (different types of strops, pastes, proper technique, care of strops, repair of strops, making of strops, etc). A proper stropping tutorial to me would have extreme close-ups, and accurate sound to illustrate the sights, the sounds and the smells (A little Spinal Tap reference there) of stropping.

I have two suggestions at this point: 1) Spend time very carefully honing with the weight of only the blade or extremely light pressure using only the 8000 side at this point and see where that gets you. This is bucking the pyramidic trend, but you'll be practicing your technique while avoiding the potential for just grinding down your edge going back and forth from the 4000/8000. Try even hundreds of passes on the 8000 side, checking the edge every 25 passes or so. Take your time. Spread it out over a few days time. If after that it's still not back to shaving sharp, something else is wrong. 2) send it out to be honed by someone, get it back and read all you can about stropping in the meantime.

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Thanks, Chris! First, I agree 100% with your thoughts on stropping and a tutorial DVD/video lesson. You're spot on. Second, I'll give honing gently on the 8K side a go and let you know how it works out. Should that fail, I might just send it out to Classic Shaving (where I bought it) and pay for their professional service. A third option for me is that I go to an "old school" barber that uses a straight razor to clean up around your neck/ears and chat with him. He probably has forgotten more about straight razors than I'll ever know!

Thanks again!
Ryan

Ryan, I would recommend you send it out to be re-honed professionally. Maybe there is someone close to your area. You see honing can be rather difficult, and if you do not have a shave ready straight to compare to, your skills may not become as good as they can. Learning everything at once is a large obstacle to overcome, take it a bit at a time.

I understand your feelings of the first shave, it is really disheartening but I bet maybe 90% of this community experienced a dreadful first shave, especially if their beards are coarse.
I imagine one of your problems may have been angles, or perhaps even a rolled edge. The angles of a real straight vs a feather are completely different so thats why I think that may have been one of your problems. Also you need a slight bit more pressure with a real straight than you do with a feather, and this too can make the razor pull, I only figured that out recently.

Take your time in learning, start with your cheeks, then work your way to the harder parts.

And remember. Slow, smooth. Smooth is fast. :tu

Good luck and keep us updated

I am promoting Chris L and AF Davis to master status in my straight razor shaving world. I did approx. 40 passes on the 8K side in two separate sets with about 50 strokes of the strop in between. After my final run on the 8K hone, I did about 30-40 minutes worth of stropping. I'll be shaving with it a bit later this afternoon, but from the hair test, I'm VERY hopeful now. I think this nut is cracked, so thanks for the advice!!!

Stropping saves lives! :D

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Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

I imagine one of your problems may have been angles, or perhaps even a rolled edge. The angles of a real straight vs a feather are completely different so thats why I think that may have been one of your problems. Also you need a slight bit more pressure with a real straight than you do with a feather, and this too can make the razor pull, I only figured that out recently.

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I think you're right... the feather razor is heavier, which I'm pretty sure translates to the razor doing more of the work for you, i.e. less pressure. Also, the angle I used with it was about 25-ish degrees, rather shallow, I believe, by regular straight razor standards. So, I think you're correct re: angles too.

What angle do you use with your straight razor? For some reason, 30 is sticking out in my head, perhaps from the DVD??

Ryan

IIRC the general accepted standard is 30 degree. Now that I think about it, I haven't really concentrated on what degree I use. I had to experiment a lot before getting it right, but TBH I think my angle is less than 30.

Sorry I can't help you further. You may just need to experiment too, but do it with a shave ready straight first. ;)

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Originally Posted by R. O'Loughlin

I think you're right... the feather razor is heavier, which I'm pretty sure translates to the razor doing more of the work for you, i.e. less pressure. Also, the angle I used with it was about 25-ish degrees, rather shallow, I believe, by regular straight razor standards. So, I think you're correct re: angles too.

What angle do you use with your straight razor? For some reason, 30 is sticking out in my head, perhaps from the DVD??

Ryan

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