Circular Honing

Greetings all, first time poster, newbie straight shaver.

The information I have picked-up just from lurking has been very helpful. But I did have a question that I have yet to see addressed.

Once a long time ago, I saw a barber honing his razor using a circular/oval pattern. Rather than make an X using a swipe, flip, swipe again pattern, this guy made an oval pattern, keeping the razor perpendicular to the hone. He did this a few times on one side and then flipped the blade to work the other side. I assume he moved the blade in such a way as to get the entire lenght of the blade.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has used this technique? Is it a safe alternative to the X pattern or is it not good for your razor?

Thanks for your comments,
~Robert

That pattern is usually used to remove chips and/or damage to the edge, not as a way to sharpen up the edge. The reason for this is typically that more pressure is used and more metal is removed.

I've seen Lynn and gssixgun both use the circular pattern - but only on the lowest grit stone and only when needing to set the bevel quickly or remove some edge damage or bevel unevenness.

I had shaved with a straight, using a barber hone, for many years. But I left the razor behind when I moved to Italy. Last April, my daughter cleaned out the house and sent me my razor, but without the barber hone or strop. I didn't know where to get another barber hone (didn't think of eBay) and ended up buying the Norton 4K/8K. When I didn't get good results from it, I took it to my barber here in Modena. He sharpened it for me on the 8K side (without water) using a very, very delicate circular motion such as you described and got the razor very sharp. He also stropped it for me, very delicately. It was certainly a beautiful thing to see and absolutely a lost art.

Another fine example of the many ways to hone a razor.
Thanks for sharing.
I'm using the circles whenever I need speed. Never considered using it for finishing.
I'm gonna try this at least once.

Best regards,
Bart.

Actually, I've occasionally used circular strokes on my Nakayama Kiita stone because it's extremely hard and extreeeemely fine and this builds up a tiny bit of slurry that can then be used to polish the bevel in the usual x pattern honing style. But a few passes over the surface with a diamond hone gets the same results.

It's just another technique that may work when everything else seems to be going nowhere. As long as you finish the honing progression with edge leading strokes, there's no difference in how the blade got the edge it has.

Lighter pressure is best for any method.

Circles on barber hones works great. Just be light of touch as with all honing.

PuFF

I've used circles for setting the bevel on a low grit hone but have not used it on a high grit hone.

Yeah, I've seen Howard use circles when honing. He goes more by feel and sound than number of strokes. I now do the same to a degree! I only use circles for speedy nick removal though. But as has been said- there are plenty of different ways to get a razor sharp!

There's a video on U tube I think of a guy who uses an X pattern but puts a little circular movement in at the end of each stroke. Clearly he will never get a rolled edge. Again though he has a very light touch.

You mean this video?

YouTube - Razor Sharpening


I dont think hes doing that to hone but to get some slurry on the razor. I may be wrong though...

I think it is to wipe away any bur with a back hone circle. thanks for the show-

Anyone else being hypnotised by watching that clip?

It was making me very sleepy.. in a relaxing kind of way. (not in a boredom way lol)

Doesn't look like back honing to me. To be honest it looks like all he is doing at the end of each stroke is wiping off the excess slurry onto the hone, so the blade can pass through it again on the next stroke. Looks like a pretty smart idea to be honest, perhaps I'll give it a try soon.


John P.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnP

Doesn't look like back honing to me. To be honest it looks like all he is doing at the end of each stroke is wiping off the excess slurry onto the hone, so the blade can pass through it again on the next stroke. Looks like a pretty smart idea to be honest, perhaps I'll give it a try soon.


John P.

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I dunno, it seems like a continual back honing thing to me, regardless of his intent. He appears to keep the same pressure on the razor on those semi-circle passes as the forward strokes.

I think it would be a good idea too, right now I backhone 1-5 strokes every 15-50 regular strokes (depends on the razor and hone) anyhow, so this might be a good way to keep my stroke more...even/regular.

I too thought he was just doing that to get the slurry back on the hone in front of the edge but I can't discount the fact that some slight back honing might be taking place at the same time.

Did anyone else notice the stropping video by the same gent. :eek: I've seen guys use a slack strop before but this is in a whole other realm. I found the link in the small pix below the video. Now, I'm not going to knock his technique as it obviously works for him but I'd have to take a pretty deep breath before attempting the same with one of my razors. Who knows... maybe it will work , I guess I'll just have to try?!?! :thinking:

Regards

Christian

yeah that was real flappity- did you check out the shave vid?

Plus- look at the part when he slows down- the razor is not even flat to the strop?

:HJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnP

Doesn't look like back honing to me. To be honest it looks like all he is doing at the end of each stroke is wiping off the excess slurry onto the hone, so the blade can pass through it again on the next stroke. Looks like a pretty smart idea to be honest, perhaps I'll give it a try soon.


John P.

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John, I agree with you. The one thing he does is to take the stroke all the way to the end of the hone. That pushes the slurry way to the end, and some of it off, of the hone.
I have gotten around that by leaving 1" of the hone untouched at the end of each stroke.

Circular honing... on a fine hone may be just fine and his stroke does have an element of back honing. The only thing I object to is circular honing on coarse hones, I feel it weakens the metal and leads to microchipping at the higher grits.

But, each of us develops a style that results in an edge that satisfies us.


Just my two cents,:)

I see what you guys are saying about directing the slurry, the net effect though is a back hone.

I say: very slick technique all things considered.

Here's something that has occurred to me in reading various honing practices here, which Randy reminds me.

Even in the vid I thought. Hmm I would have rotated the hone at the second slurrying. I can't recall anyone ever mentioning using the whole stone. Not only utilizing both long dimensions equally, but honing on the short dimension of wide hones- for instance when you reckon your just about there, or a razor needs a little touch up. when I lay hold of an excellent natural I figure it to be irreplaceable.

As well with a good hard synthetic lapping before every use seems a bit much. The recommended razor's weight touch will hardly effect a shapton at all. Remember these were developed for abrasive resistant steel Yasugi blues, super blues, A2, swedish alloys- @ 60+ rockwell. A few hundred light strokes from a razor just barely causes the stone to open one eye from its slumber to see who's tickling it.

I'm no teacher or traveling lecturer, not interested in telling anyone how to do it. I am interested in sharing as it helps me connect the dots and gleen more detail from you guys who sharpen way more razors than I.

I am going to post here, and let you know first, that this is totally my opinion here, I have no scientific proof, but perhaps someone like Randy who loves to do experiments on stuff like this could add to it....

When it comes to circular and Japanese style honing, first off, I use that on very, very, few razors, most take a nice sharp bevel and I am done, on a Norton 1k.... Now since I have gone to using Shapton's above the 1k level I am really more concerned with attaining a really smooth edge and keeping the striations all in line...
If I am going to use circles and Japanese honing techniques I usually use them on a razor that is uneven and needs a just little push to get that sharp bevel set, both techniques create their own back-honing just by the nature of the stroke..... Once the bevel is sharp I go back to the X patten to even out the edge, if I am using these techniques, I use them on the 2k and 4k Shapton, but usually just the 2k then I am back to nice light even strokes....

The one thing I would disagree with is using circular patterns on polishing or higher grit stones, (My opinion here) I think that it creates a nice sharp edge, but, it does not leave the edge with nice straight even striations that I believe give the smoothest closest shaves.... Those striations I believe slice the hair better, than say a circular pattern on the edge....

This is all conjecture here, and again whatever gives you the closest smoothest shave is the correct way for you to hone.....

I cannot add to much to this thread other than what happened today.

I had a razor, a Henckels 8/8, that had the beginnings of a wire edge. So, I tried doing some circles on a coticule, approx 30 each side. The result was not satisfactory there were 2 more micronicks than when I started. So I went to the strop and tried to strop off the wire edge, again. no luck.

However there was a small nick about 3/4" from the toe plus 2 smaller ones. So I used the Norton 4K and did some circles, 20 each side, lightly. The result was a disaster! The nick expanded into a nice big divot!:rant:
This was my third honing session on this Henckels. I have learned that it has brittle steel. The solution was to use 1000 grit sandpaper to remove the divot and micronicks and then The Belgian blue and yellow. The result is a very clean edge. Tomorrow is the shave test.
No more circle honing on coarse stones for me! I have had enough problems from that technique. Yes, I know it depends on the steel and the grind. But how do you tell if a steel is brittle? I cannot.