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Hi!
I am on the lookout for stones to use when honing. I seen all the films on youtube and other places how they use them. But is there any real good site within EU (I live in sweden) for buying a good stone? And what stone should I go for for basic honing?
The Perfect Edge
Yes, it is in the US, but trust me on this: the stones are much cheaper than the same stones in european shops. IF you can find them. And that's a pretty big if sometimes.
As for which stone to buy:
If you're new to honing, a coticule or a norton 4k/8k is imo the best stone to use.
There is also the DMTEE, which is an 8K diamond plate. Several people have used it with good results, and it is low maintenance and easy. But I cannot comment on those because I never tried them.
But do not forget the VAT! For me in the Netherlands that would be 19% + 5% handling charges on both value of contents + value of the stamp!
The Invisible Edge at NEW! Belgian razor hones in the UK is now selling coticules and they are a better deal than the Perfect Edge. It's not exactly apples and oranges because Steve is selling "bouts" and not rectangular hones, but a "bout" is all you will need, plus his hones include a piece of rubbing stone for raising the slurry.
Well I checked the prices with pound to dollar conversions, and the stones at the perfected edge are much cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimensch
The invisible edges stones are about $132 american to ship to the EU if my figureing is correct.
The perfect edge has stones for $78 for a 6"x2" so even with adding in a slurry stone and shipping it should still be less. He sells bouts for $65.
So with the weak dollar it is seems likely that buying from america might well be the cheapest option.
Actually, the prices are about the same. Bout = $65.00, Slurry stone = $18.00, VAT (20%) = 16.60 and shipping $32.00 (when I ordered a Norton flattening stone from Howard) = a total of $131.60, while the prices from the Invisible Edge include shipping and there is no VAT. I'd say it was a wash except it will arrive faster and with less hassle from the UK. I don't know how Howard's coticules come, but the one I bought from the Invisible Edge came in a nice box with foam liner to hold the stones.Quote:
Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle
I figured that the shipping was included, but did not understand how the VAT worked, and figured that buying from any outside country would be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimensch
We live and learn ... In any case, Howard at the Perfect Edge is very knowledgeable and friendly and offers a lot more honing products than the Invisible Edge. For example, I had originally bought my Norton 4K/8K from Executive Shaving in the UK but when I needed the flattening stone I had to go to the Perfect Edge. In the context of this particular thread, the recommendation of a coticule is very good and, thus, my suggestion of the Invisible Edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle
I live in Belgium.Quote:
Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle
50 km from a shaving shop where they sell coticules, and about 100 km from the quarry where the coticules are mined.
And I still bought my 8x3 coticule from Howard at the perfectedge.
Even with shipping and the mandatory 10 euro customs fee, it was still a good deal cheaper.
All thanks to the weak dollar.
I guess you don't have time to read every post. When comparing apples and apples (a bout from Howard to a bout from the Invisible Edge) the weak dollar makes no difference. The Invisible Edge doesn't sell an 8x3 coticle and I don't know what the shaving shop in Belgium charges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Besides, the weak dollar is only favorable for goods produced in America. It has no effect on goods produced in Europe that are shipped to the US and then back to Europe (except for the extra shipping cost).
Unless the goods have been bought a long time ago in Europe when the dollar was still high. Moreover: wholesalers give discounts to retailers if they buy large amounts. Some retailers accept smaller margins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimensch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Seems the Belgian government is less greedy than the Dutch. We pay 19% VAT + 5 % handling charges.
That's true, but it is also true that some merchant's take advantage of the rise in the replacement cost to raise the price on older, cheaper merchandise. It all depends on whether you account for your inventory using LIFO or FIFO. As the dollar drops, you know that smart retailers are using LIFO. In any case, if this argument goes on much further, we'll end up writing an economics textbook together!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees
Very true. And some retailers in brick and mortar shops haven't figured out that consumers are increasingly comparing prices on the Internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees
Actually, the weak dollar is good because margins are made on local currency.
Howard sells his 8x3 coticules at 185 dollar
The same coticule in antwerp costs 175 euros == 262 dollars.
howard makes a lot less money on his coticules than the people from the shaving shop.
So add in shipping (~30 dollars) then the coticule from howard costs 215 dollars.
For the remaining difference I bought a DMT8C diamond plate and I ended up paying the same amount that I would have paid in the belgian shop.
and that calculation does not include the money for gas (driving there) or shipping (which would be significant) so that would more than make up for the lack of rubbing stone or the 10 euro customs fee.
The invisible edge charges 70 pounds for a bout (134 dollar shipped to EU) while howard sells them for 65 $.
Even adding in the money for a rubbing stone and international shipping makes howard's bout cheaper.
My point was that for europeans, trying to find european shops is often pointless from a price point of view at the moment. The weak dollar combined with lower margins for US sellers more than compensates for the additional shipping cost.
The customs policies are different for each country.
But of all the stuff I've received so far, I either got no additional fee (customs did not even pick it out of the line) or they charged 10 euros, which is the local 'I can't be bothered to check the real value and eligble taxes' fee. Even my expensive packages from So cost me 10 euros. This will be different for other countries so I cannot judge that.
as of comming december 1st, the dutch import taxes are being dropped for imported goods to a maximum of 150€
So maby wait for that and have it send trough holland (holland => sweden = no import tax)
and they sel BC here
http://www.scheerwinkel.nl/catalog/i...0a19b12754b6a9
35€ for 10x4cm stone with free bout
Is 10X4 cm the stone to buy sizewise?
It'll do the job. It's basically what I have. You can spend more if you want to but it's not necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denno
Ok so now the only question is, where to order the stone from, and what grind or whatever to buy all those 4000 and 8000 and so on. :)
Size is basically a preference thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denno
A 10cm by 4 cm is made of the same material as a 20cm by 7,5 cm
You'll need more strokes on the little stone, and they will handle differently and require slightly different motions. But apart from that it doesn't matter too much imo.
Aha. Is one more easy then the other to work with? Is the handeling different? Or is the motion the same?
I saw some clip where a wider stone you moved the razor straight from side to side as for a more narrow stone in width you had to use a "sawing motion" to get the whole blade.
Is the sawing motion harder to do then a straght motion from side to side on the stone?
On the smaller stone, the entire blade will not be touching the stone at the same time and you will have to do an X pattern. Even though you can go straight across on a wider stone, the X pattern is still recommended. As was said above, the smaller stone will do the job. If you would like a bigger stone and can afford it, that's personal preference but it is not strictly necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denno
Given how small many barber hones are, it would seem that small can get the job done fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Denno