Alternative to honing/stroping cycles - Doing Sets?

I've been looking at honing/stroping methods and noticed most, if not all, use cycles (one forward, one back) If I understand the principles behind honing and stroping, wouldn't the outcome be the same if you do sets (e.g .10 forward, 10 back) as well? The reason is because I would imagine that consistency, control, and speed would be improved if the grip wouldn't need to alternate so much you just need to make sure that you lift the blade off. So long as you do equal amounts on both sides of the blade, conceptually would it give the same results?

I would prefer to do sets instead of cycles so I wanna know if this has been spoken of.

I know that for me, it makes sure I apply the same number of strokes to each side. If I lose count, at least I know I did the same number of strokes on each side of the blade. If I did a set of 20 on one side, and lost count on the other, I'd be wearing the blade unevenly. This is a relatively minor issue if you can count, though :)

Once you get used to it, the grip isn't bad at all. Rolling the spine over almost becomes second nature. I'm sure some honemeisters will chime in with some better reasoning, too.

Hmmmmmm sounds like an experiment in the making :D
Let us know how it turns out......

The edge we want to create on the razor is finer than for almost any other purpose. As a result, I imagine that failing to complete laps (up and back) on the hone especially would result in a rolled edge all on one side, the last side you honed. The ultra fine razor's edge benefits from the up and back routine because it keeps both sides of the edge progressing at precisely (or as nearly so as can be managed) the same rate. I doubt you'd be successful with what you plan.

X

I think the reason we recommend doing it back and forth is because you just flip the razor and go back. Doing sets just brings in another chance to do something bad to the razor as you bring it off the hone. To be honest when I hone Japanese Straights for restoration thats the way I do it , in sets and it works just fine. I have no reason to believe it wouldn't work the same with a western straight. Just be careful.

When I was "inventing" my ultralight weight backpackers 3x3 card strop I did sets as you describe. It was so short turning each stroke was a bother.

I didn't grow a beard, so it worked. The only ill effect was using CrO everyday for 3 months.

I never honed that way , but I can speculate.:) I would be mindful of turning up a "large" bur, so that when you turn the blade over make a very deliberate and light stroke, otherwise you might possibly bend it or shred it off, rather than carefully cutting it off.

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Originally Posted by xman

The edge we want to create on the razor is finer than for almost any other purpose. As a result, I imagine that failing to complete laps (up and back) on the hone especially would result in a rolled edge all on one side, the last side you honed. The ultra fine razor's edge benefits from the up and back routine because it keeps both sides of the edge progressing at precisely (or as nearly so as can be managed) the same rate. I doubt you'd be successful with what you plan.

X

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So the only reason you would do cycles is to make sure you do equal amounts on each side. No offense but LOGICALLY you CAN do sets instead of cycles so long as you maintain focus on your counts and keep them minimal. You wouldnt do 60 strops one side then 60 on other. it would be 10 Forward 10 Back 10 Forward 10 back. Even cycles can be flawed. If you keep count I'm pretty sure it would work. Just because it challenges conventional methods doesnt mean it won't work. There is effectiveness and then theres efficiency. There are MANY methods to sharpen metal and if it works its effective, but efficiency is doing it with the least strain and it isn't the same for everyone.

The disadvantage to this approach as far as I can see is that you have the potential to build up a wire edge that you are pushing from side to side as you hone. This wire edge can of couse be eliminated but you need to recognize when it develops and know how to remove it. I would be interested in hearing about your results.

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Originally Posted by netsurfr

The disadvantage to this approach as far as I can see is that you have the potential to build up a wire edge that you are pushing from side to side as you hone. This wire edge can of couse be eliminated but you need to recognize when it develops and know how to remove it. I would be interested in hearing about your results.

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Now that is what I call a good rebutal. I can see how a wire edge can form from honing, you think it could work with stroping though? I would imagine that the most important thing is consitency.

For stropping, though, the most efficient movement is the back and forth strokes.

You can fix any wire edge that might form during the honing cycles, but that's a slightly harder skill to master than just alternating as is commonly recommended.

If you do try it out, though, we love to hear about tests and results :hmmm: .

What your suggesting has been done by others. I believe it was Traveller(Gary Alfonso) who described it to me and he learned it from another guy. I have done this on the coarse grits (1000, 4000 ) when I am trying to establish a brand new bevel or wear out a sizable nick. Thankfully I seldom have to go to that extreme. But when I do I always follow that with the traditional cycle stroke, up, flip, back.

I used to be in a hurry when I honed. I wanted it done "quickly!"
Was that ever a mistake! Honing a Str8 razor is like dating women. Some are easy going country types and some are Diva's who are very demanding. You have to pay attention to both, give them what they need and only then will they give you what you want.

Almost every new guy who stops over to my place for a honing session is performing the strokes to fast. The edge is not being kept on the hone in a uniform manner thru-out the stroke.
Slow down, you will get there faster.


Just my two cents,:)

I don't really see the point in doing sets. You 'd have to lift the razor up, move it back to the start position, and put it back down on the surface, careful not to hit it with the edge before the spine is in contact. I'm sure that, after some practice, just flipping the razor over and performing a stroke while moving back to the start position will turn out to be quicker and more convenient than doing sets.

With regular knife honing, one hones till a burr is present and than hones the other side of the knife. This gives a very decent knife edge, but a good razor edge lies beyond the burr threshold. Your method would introduce the risk of raising the early stages of a burr, before you turn the razor over for the opposite set. For bevel creation on the low grits that poses no problem, but when refining and polishing that bevel to the keenness needed for a good shave, I would not take that risk.
Will a car with octagonal wheels drive? Yes, I guess it will. But why reinvent the wheel?

Bart.

I don't see the advantage either, it'll make you travel twice the distance to do the same amount of stropping/honing. And you risk messing the edge more by re-placing the blade instead of just turning on the spine.

With a Japanese Straight there is an advantage because you are doing back and forth strokes so to do say 30 strokes continuously and then flip and do 20 on the other side is more efficient. With a western razor there is no advantage to doing sets.