Honing failure and Uneven Razor Profile - Normal?

Hey all,
So I tried to hone my new DOVO Bismark, received "Presharpened" from ClassicShaving.com because I wasn't getting as close a shave as I expected. I followed Lynn's Pyramid from the HelpFiles using my Norton 4k/8k for keening an edge. I was gentle, used plenty of water, didn't rush. Instead of sharper, my blade become more dull. :shrug: Tried to shave after stroping 60 cycles... nothing couldn't cut it.
So I'm putting it aside until I get my practice razors and can perhaps have someone more experienced hone it/them. Then I also looked on the sides and noticed that profile was uneven as shown in the pictures. The right side looks thinner than the left. Is this normal? Or better, does it even matter? Would this affect my honing the razor?

Thanks All



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I moved your thread here so it will get more notice.

I would suggest you send it back to a honemeister for now. I know sometimes we want to rush right in and learn everything at once, but sometimes it does more harm than good. After you have it honed again, keep it as your bench mark and then pick up a cheapy off the bay, or post around and ask if anyone has an old blade suitable for honing practice.
Also you might want to invest in a higher grit final polisher, like a yellow coticule, an escher or something of the like. I wouldn't dream of trying to shave from an 8k.

Others will be along soon with additional advice. Good luck, and keep us posted on how things go.

That should not affect the razor's ability to take an edge. As long as the bevel is set correctly and you do enough strokes on the finishing grits, the edge should shave.

The pyramids are also designed to be very gentle to a razor, try doing it again and see what happens (if you are comfortable doing so on that nice of a razor).

That said, I never liked the edge off of the Norton 8k, too coarse for my tastes. A pasted paddle strop with some Chromium Oxide does good things for nearly every edge and can be made of balsa wood, so it's cheap and effective.

I agree that the difference in grind is of no consequence. You can see that type of grind on older Sheffield razors and they shave just fine.

I also agree that more cycles thru the pyramid would be called for but I suspect that the problem is not with the sharpness of the edge but rather with your stropping or shaving technique.

What I would do now is have the razor honed by one of the guys here so you have a benchmark for sharpness and also get a couple of vintage razors to practice honing on. Pay careful attention to your stropping, beard prep and the angle of the blade while shaving, The spine of the razor should be 30 degrees away from the face, 2 spine widths, or closer.

Did you lap that hone before you used it?

Just my two cents this morning,:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Did you lap that hone before you used it?

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I wasn't aware that it needed lapping. I'm more of a minimalist and try to avoid purchasing too many things to do the same job. The only items I bought is the Norton 4K/8K and an Illinois 835 Strop which I thought was all that was needed, both from ClassicShaving. After reading the threads, I've noticed that I may have to get a DMT8 and a Chinese 12K or make a Balsa Paddle with CO.
Anyone have suggestions/recommendations?

I am also arranging to discuss honing with RichZ, who happens to be nearby. As for having a reference for sharpness I have PLENTY of DE razors, but I'd still like to have a shave ready straight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

. As for having a reference for sharpness I have PLENTY of DE razors, but I'd still like to have a shave ready straight.

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This is a common mistake by newbies. A DE blade is completely different from a straight razor. One cannot compare the two for shave readyness. You will learn this as you go along, I started out with a feather and thought nothing could compare, even razors honed by honemeisters, then after lots of practice, the saves improved.

Again, a shave ready straight razor edge, will always feel and be different to that of a machine sharpened DE blade, including feathers.

Lapping can be done easily with 400 grit wet dry sand paper, two splashes of water and a linoleum counter top (as long as it is relatively flat).

1. Draw a grid on the stone with a pencil.
2. Splash water on the counter top, put the sandpaper down on the counter. Take the second splash of water and wet the sand paper.
3. Grind the grid off with circular motions
4. :HJ

Back to the thread, I've had a couple wonky grinds that worked out, but from your picture it almost looks like it is bent. I'm not sure about that.

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

I wasn't aware that it needed lapping. I'm more of a minimalist and try to avoid purchasing too many things to do the same job. The only items I bought is the Norton 4K/8K and an Illinois 835 Strop which I thought was all that was needed, both from ClassicShaving. After reading the threads, I've noticed that I may have to get a DMT8 and a Chinese 12K or make a Balsa Paddle with CO.
Anyone have suggestions/recommendations?

I am also arranging to discuss honing with RichZ, who happens to be nearby. As for having a reference for sharpness I have PLENTY of DE razors, but I'd still like to have a shave ready straight.

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Lapping is highly recommended because the hone's surface may be slightly irregular from the factory and thus inhibited proper usage. There are many ways to lap a hone; sandpaper, water, and a flat surface are all that's necessary.

The Chinese 12k is a great stone for the price (it'll need to be lapped also) but isn't a necessity. A pasted paddle will do a similar job if you find the 8k to be too coarse. Balsa wood is readily available and cheap, as is CrO paste.

Your DE blades are a good reference, but as has been said, a straight razor's edge is "different". Just be conscious of that, take your time, and try to have fun.:tu

I agree with a lot of what has been said, base on my two weeks of honing expirience. I bought a lot of old razors on ebay to practice on. Some of the edges are uneven or even frowning. I found myself getting frustrated after several hours of work on them when I realized, 'I'm just learning...just beginning.' Just because we beginners can't fix problematic razors, doesn't mean we aren't learning/improving or honing our skills (or razors, haha). I keep reminding myself, baby steps...be patient. Untill then, I am looking forward to one of my Dovos or Bokers to need honing so I can test myself on a good edge.

On a completely unrelated note, any opinions here about using electrical tape to prevent hone wear on the spine? The way I understand it, if you use it, you have to always use it, or use it at ALL grits to prevent double or uneven bevels? Any advice?

If you start with tape, go all the way with tape, right up to the test shave. Once the razor passes the test shave, peel the tape off, use a little oil to remove tape residue and be happy!

I started out the same way, buying lots of ebay specials and working on honing. I was lucky to have a forum member with a lot of experience to start me in the right direction with personal lessons. He used 1 layer of tape and so did I for the first year. I don't use tape anymore but I'm glad that I did when I was learning. When I was starting out I might have overdid the pressure and skinned up some spines unnecessarily. Not an issue now. Good luck with your honing.

I only tape on problem edges till the problem goes away. Than off comes the tape and set the bevel and move on.

Using a pyramid to update a razor is like adjusting the time on a watch with a hammer.