New razor, supposed to be shave ready, yeeeeeah right!..

So I got a new razor today, but it is blunt as a kitchen knife!

So now I have been honing for about 1 hour, using mostly 4k, but also 600# sandpaper.. Wondering about getting a coarse grit hone, because this can take some time.. What would you recommend?

I took some pics, seller also suggested it is a carbon steel blade. But aren't they easy to hone?


Here is my new razor besides a well honed smaller one, can you see the difference?
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/DSCF2167.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/DSCF2169.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/DSCF2170.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/DSCF2172.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/DSCF2173.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/DSCF2174.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/DSCF2175.jpg

You should be able to get the job done with the abrasives you have.

Keep working on the 600 paper until the edge is "sticky sharp" when you touch the edge with your thumb, then move on to the 4k until it seems like all of the the scratches are gone, from there you can move up through the various finishing grits that you may have, or do some pyramids (instructions are in the threads at the top of the forum)to finish off the edge.

What other hones do you have?

I only have a 4/8k Norton stone. Just ordered a coarser grit stone, as the paper wears out really quickly. A japanese 280/1500# stone, hope it is good enough.
And I guess i should buy a 12k or something like that.

I frequently do a few dozen laps on a dmt325 (blasphemy, I know) when I am putting a bevel on an older blade that doesn't have a good bevel. then I'll start working my way up the chain.


also, when you are on the lower stones (<1000 grit) don't be afraid to use a bit of pressure, otherwise it'll take you all day to get anywhere. light pressure only, if you really push on it, you can snap the edge of the blade :nono:

I have a few comments--surprise!

First, sharp or not, that is beautiful! I really like the two tone scales and never thought to do it. I definitely want to try that out. Do you know what woods they are? Downsides of the scale job seems to be two-fold. I don't care for the pinning job. I would have preferred it to be smoother. Also, I'm kind of surprised at the gap between the tang and the scales at the pivot end. Regardless, it's still beautiful!


On to the blade, since that's all you asked about. These are not always easy to hone. In my limited experience, I have found these to often need a rolling honing motion to cover the entire edge. There have been recent discussions about this in the last couple of days so you will have no problem learning about it if you don't know what it is. Next, it might just be the photo, but it looks like there are a couple of nicks below the first "L" of the word "hollow." If that is the case, you will want to hone that out or insist that the seller take care of it. There are different degrees of shave ready but a nick free blade is certainly a basic requirement.

Regarding suggestions. I would say unless you are confident in your abilities, that razor is too nice to mess up and it might be worth it to send to someone to hone it for you. If the seller claimed it to be shave ready, you might want to ask him to pony up for the honing charge.

If you want to hone it yourself, I'm not sure sandpaper is a good idea. I've never used it and never want to but Lynn recently pointed out that the most frequent cause of trashed bevels on razors he rescues is due to sandpaper honing. As far as recommendations for coarser hones, the two most commonly recommended on this forum seem to be the DMT 1200 diamond plate and the Norton 1000. I use the latter for bevel setting just about about every old razor I hone. I only use my DMTs (120 and 325) for lapping so I have no experience with honing off of a DMT.

Good luck with it!

I use 1000 or 1500 grit wet and dry to establish the bevel and I find that 10 back and forth passes on the dry paper does the job. Even on blunt razors. Perhaps you need to apply a bit of pressure for the first four passes. Once you get that gritty edge, you need to stop and move onto higher grits. Finally finishing on chromium oxide or newspaper and at least 50 laps on a good leather strop.

Even then, the second and third shaves will be better than the first. Don't understand it but it is the way it is.

Good luck.

I am going to make some suggestions here, and I will do so as respectfully as possible.....
1.That is a very uneven bevel on the razor...
2. It is going to take some experience to even it up
3. All reference to lap counts are of no relevance what so ever, there are way to many variables involved.....
4. The use of sandpaper to set bevels is possible but not highly reccomended...
5. Contact the seller, and ask what you should do from here, give him the opportunity to make it right...
6. At least ask the seller how it was honed and on what..... that might give you an idea of where it is at.....

This is all JMHO take it for what it is worth.....

Seller said this about the handle: "Ash wood for skeleton and Paduk decorative scale sealed with cyanoacrylate". There are some sort of spacers between the tang and the scales.

As I already gave the seller negative feedback (ebay...) I doubt he will want to make it right.

Anybody on the forum want to give the knife a try? as you have pointed out, I might just do more harm than good..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Legatia

As I already gave the seller negative feedback (ebay...) I doubt he will want to make it right.

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You just explained it all with that statement, "E-Bay"..... Myself I only know of 2 sellers other than our members that sell actual shave ready razors on e-bay... in fact I think both of them are members here too...
There are plenty of experienced honemiester's that can fix that blade right up, the problem is the shipping, I don't know if we have a member in Norway or at least in Scandinavia that hones razors for other people.... Maybe they will pipe up if we do????

Is it possible that the uneven bevel on the toe is caused by what seems to me like uneven spine wear?

Do you have any pic's from of the blade before you started to hone it?

Just getting technical for a while.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the spine. Often on the English razors, the spine bevel is wider near the end than at the toe. Some times the spine is slightly thinner at the tip to achieve this automatically when you hone using a figure of eight pattern on a hone that is 2" or less wide. I think that during the hammering process, the end was given an extra hit on both sides. I have seen many Sheffield razors with this deliberate engineering.
The design leads to a wider edge at the tip and removes any spike off the razor tip, but replaces it with a sharp curved end. If you don't like the sharpness running around the tip of the razor, you just strike it once or twice along the side of your hone to blunt it down. This was common practice with English razors. Very unlike many American razors which had a deliberate spike point and in some respects were not as sophisticated.

My feeling is that the razor was initially honed using tape and to get back to none taped bevel takes a bit of work on a 1000 grit hone. The blade is nearly a wedge and so it was quick to develop a new bevel on the edge using tape, but it's a slow process to reverse and it does wear the spine bevel to do the catch up.

I will repeat having used a Spyderco 1000 grit(fine) for a while, that good quality wet and dry will do a quicker and in my opinion better job. I use the paper dry and change it for a fresh piece after ten return passes. The result is a very grippy edge with a perfect V. I don't find the difference between 1000, 1200,1500 or 2000 grit wet and dry paper makes much difference. However, I usually use the 1500 grit.


Why anyone should think that wet and dry will do a bad job defeats me. It's just a hone and with wet and dry it's also new and very abrasive, unclogged and put on glass, as flat as you can get. Anyway it' s always done a good job in my hands. It's a very quick and simple process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by English

Just getting technical for a while.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the spine. Often on the English razors, the spine bevel is wider near the end than at the toe. Some times the spine is slightly thinner at the tip to achieve this automatically when you hone using a figure of eight pattern on a hone that is 2" or less wide. I think that during the hammering process, the end was given an extra hit on both sides. I have seen many Sheffield razors with this deliberate engineering.
The design leads to a wider edge at the tip and removes any spike off the razor tip, but replaces it with a sharp curved end. If you don't like the sharpness running around the tip of the razor, you just strike it once or twice along the side of your hone to blunt it down. This was common practice with English razors. Very unlike many American razors which had a deliberate spike point and in some respects were not as sophisticated.

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Thanks for the explanation, I've got a couple of Sheffields with the rounding and the wider spine bevel, excellent shavers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by English

My feeling is that the razor was initially honed using tape and to get back to none taped bevel takes a bit of work on a 1000 grit hone. The blade is nearly a wedge and so it was quick to develop a new bevel on the edge using tape, but it's a slow process to reverse and it does wear the spine bevel to do the catch up.

I will repeat having used a Spyderco 1000 grit(fine) for a while, that good quality wet and dry will do a quicker and in my opinion better job. I use the paper dry and change it for a fresh piece after ten return passes. The result is a very grippy edge with a perfect V. I don't find the difference between 1000, 1200,1500 or 2000 grit wet and dry paper makes much difference. However, I usually use the 1500 grit.

Why anyone should think that wet and dry will do a bad job defeats me. It's just a hone and with wet and dry it's also new and very abrasive, unclogged and put on glass, as flat as you can get. Anyway it' s always done a good job in my hands. It's a very quick and simple process.

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I've used both sandpaper and a DMT 1200 to establish the bevel, and for me the biggest difference is that the wet/dry paper sometimes would sort of "bunch up" in front of the blade, but if you keep focus on holding the paper thought to eliminate the problem, I haven't noticed much difference in the end result.

I don't have any pics before I started honing, but the spine wasn't any different.

Do you hone razors, bjørn? -Send en pm om du gjør:)
BTW, where in Norway do you live?

Shipping is quite expensive, so if there are no one in scandinavia that hone razors, I guess I will have to try fixing it myself.

Try using the thin, black electrical tape to cover the spine. That will change the angle a very small amount and is probably what is needed on this razor.

I also use 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper to work out nicks from the edge and then move to a 4000 grit stone to set the bevel. Works for me.

Try using a rolling X honing stroke on that razor. Russel Baldridge started a thread with pics showing the stroke. I believe Heavy Duty also demonstrates the stroke in his video series. Look at both of them. It is a very effective stroke to use on blades with a curved edge.

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Legatia

I don't have any pics before I started honing, but the spine wasn't any different.

Do you hone razors, bjørn? -Send en pm om du gjør:)
BTW, where in Norway do you live?

Shipping is quite expensive, so if there are no one in scandinavia that hone razors, I guess I will have to try fixing it myself.

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I hone my own razors, PM on the way.

I'm located 2 hours north of Oslo

appears to me to be a razor honed with the straight up and down flat on a 3" hone method to me. Has taken all the smile out of the blade. Pass it to a honemeister for a proper hone and to get that smile back.

PuFF

Thanks everybody for your advice, it has been very helpful:)

I think I will wait for my new hone, and try a bit myself to see what happens.
If not, I will send it to a honemeister...

Now I have gotten some new hones, and to my pleasure this razor is now really sharp. The sharpest razor I have at the time.
For me, the stropping and use of chromium oxide really makes the difference!

And today, after not shaving for 5 days, I cut myself quite badly. The razor just melted into my skin...:cry:
Apart from that, it was my greatest shave ever...:)