4 Hours of Honing = No Effect! Still metal strips

So I made it a goal to devote an evening to learn honing. I lapped the 4/8K with the D8C using the pencil, honed, saw no results from razors and ended up with weird stripes:gth. I lapped the 4/8K again and honed again only I partitioned the pyramid to 30 on the 4k 30 on 8k, still the same results :gth. I used all my razors except for the smiley W&B and they all produced the same metal stripes and no shave ready edge :mad: (This is a point where I feel like giving up) I've learned to use two hands which helped keep the razor flat on the stone at minimal pressure, But I still can't get a shave ready edge and I don't have the time to give my razors and wait 3-6 weeks for honing from the masters.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...a/IMG_1248.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...a/IMG_1255.jpg

Even when I rotated the hone I still ended up with strips, the 4K didn't have the middle one though. They were lapped twice tonight and I can't have ALL my razors warped, so it's either the stone or my hone technique, either way I'm feeling very discouraged :rant:and tired :cry:

It looks like you're going straight across the hone and not using an X-pattern. Is that right?

Here is a good video to watch showing the x pattern.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...razor-dvd.html

I have felt the same frustration. It takes some doing to learn to hone a razor. Hang in there and review the videos again. Check your bevel under magnification. As HeavyDutySquare points out, most razors that come to him that the sender couldn't get sharp didn't have a proper bevel set. Did you mark the edge with a magic marker to be sure it is in proper contact with the hone ? It would also help if you had a razor honed by a honemiester to have something to compare to.

I have Lynn's DVD and watched it twice (great video). As per my discussion in a previous thread about the inefficiency of the X pattern on a 3" stone, I only use X strokes on stones less than 3".

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Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

I have Lynn's DVD and watched it twice (great video). As per my discussion in a previous thread about the inefficiency of the X pattern on a 3" stone, I only use X strokes on stones less than 3".

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Why don't you try an X-pattern to see if it makes a difference?

Try putting the razor on the hone at an angle, so that the entire blade is on the hone, but you still get the same effect as though using an X pattern.

I'm not a mathematical person so I can't tell you the correct term for the razor angle to the hone thing, that I am trying to explain. ;)

1st you need to inspect the bevel: are there any burrs, is it even? If not you have to set a bevel with the 4K or even a coarser hone depending on the state of the cutting edge. You can use the marker test to check if all parts of the bevel on either side of the blade make good contact with the hone and get metal shifted. Always do X-patterns as explained before.

As soon as this is the case you can move up to the 8K, do 20 laps and see what happens. If no better, go back to the 4K, do say 5-10 laps and go back to the 8K and so on. Evenutally you will find the edge gets no sharper. At this stage you can progress to pyramids to see if you can further improve the edge. Pyramids are explained in the help files. When you come to the point where the edge gets no sharper: strop and shave.

I have put a shave ready edge on about 10 razors now and every one of them took slightly different strokes on my norton. Also, I am setting the bevel on a 1K which is a little faster. I found that I have to be willing to adjust my honing stroke to the razor.

hope this helps,

-Rob

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Originally Posted by sicboater

I have put a shave ready edge on about 10 razors now and every one of them took slightly different strokes on my norton. Also, I am setting the bevel on a 1K which is a little faster. I found that I have to be willing to adjust my honing stroke to the razor.

hope this helps,

-Rob

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I too use a 1k for setting bevels, it is so much better.

Ok so are the black stripes attributed to my honing or to my stones?

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Originally Posted by ProfessorShak

Ok so are the black stripes attributed to my honing or to my stones?

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I don't know, but my reasoning process goes like this:

The black stripes indicate where metal is being removed. The stripe pattern is uneven, indicating that contact between the metal and hone is uneven. As you say, it's unlikely that all your razors are warped. You've lapped the hones. So, the only thing left is your technique. I have tried using the straight across stroke that you argue for and, personally, I have a hard time keeping the whole blade flat on the hone for the entire stroke unless I use two hands, and then the pressure is uneven. This is one of the reasons why I prefer the X-stroke, because it's easier to get consistent results. This is why I suggested that you try an X-stroke to see if it makes a difference. I'm not any kind of expert on honing razors, I just try different things to see how they work. I am able to hone my razors sharp because I've figured out a sequence of steps that brings me to that result but, even if I was standing next to you, I wouldn't be able to tell you what was wrong. I would most likely say, "Here, let me do it."

I didn't read the entire thread but popped back briefly to the first post and noted that we're talking about a smiley. Then I noted several mentions about stripes of metal left on the hone and no success in getting it shave ready, finally I saw mention about using straight honing. You can't hone a smiling blade with straight honing strokes. Only one small section of the edge will ride on the hone at any one time. Straight edges will touch the hone all along the edge providing the edge AND spine is straight. Smiling edges will never lie flat on a hone... ever! You must use the rolling stroke across the hone until you get the bevels to meet... there is no point in pyramids until this is done. Start the stroke with the heel of the blade leading and touching the hone, then as you move the blade across the hone, transfer the pressure towards the middle of the bevel and finally the toe by lifting ever so slightly on the tang/scales. This must be done to sharpen the entire edge of a smiling razor... it's easier done than said once you get the hang of it. If you detect one or more parts of the edge getting sharp, work more on the portions that aren't and then blend them all together with full length rolling strokes.

Second point, the bevel on each side of the blade must meet each other at the edge... until they do, there is no point in moving to a finer grit, nor is there any point in using the pyramid system. Once you have the razor SHARP, as in both bevels have been honed until they MEET at the edge, then you can move forward, refining the edge by whatever means you feel it takes to get the edge to shaving sharp. I don't use the pyramid scheme at all... I simply hone until the edge meets the thumb pad test for sharpness all along the edge, then I refine it with finer and finer hones until it passes *my* hanging hair test which will have absolutely nothing to do with your hanging hair test as our hairs are entirely different. It's only valid when you have validated it for yourself.

The pyramid system was developed as a way of dealing with wire edges... the development of such edges depends in large part on what types of hones you use. Lynn used the pyramids with the Norton (I have one, but don't use it anymore), I'm not sure if he finds it necessary with the Shaptons he now uses.... Only personal experience will tell you if that's what you need to do or if you need to do something else. No matter what though, there's no point in using a technique for avoiding wire edges if you have not reached the point of getting an edge and you CAN'T hone a smiling razor by using straight strokes on a flat hone as the edge of such a razor does not lie flat. To illustrate what I mean, take a cd or dvd and lay it flat on a table, then raise one side to illustrate a thicker spine on that side. Notice, only a very small part of the other side actually touches the table... it's the same with a smiling razor.

Hope this helps,


Christian

WOW !!!! Kaptain "Damn Fine Description There" Zero