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I would like to find out what others are doing to the razor (if anything) before honing. Is it productive to strop it first or is this a waste of time? So far my prep has been to just make sure the razor is squeaky clean, give it around 30 laps on the leather (unless it's a bevel reset and then I skip the strop) and then just start honing.
Is there anything else I should be doing?
Can you explain your reasoning as to why you strop before honing?
Chris L
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris L
Running a razor across my chin is very similar to running it over a wire brush.
Unless the razor is so dull it would benefit from resetting the bevel I feel a stropping lines up the blade so when I hit my finishing stone for a quick touchup I'm not causing micronicks by grinding off bentover parts of the blade. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. :shrug:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AusTexShaver
Perhaps I should have clarified this a little. I've gotten spoiled since I've finally figured out how to hone so it's not uncommon for me to quit using a razor that's not doing the job in the middle of a shave. I've already filled my quota of bad shaves. :w
Have you tried stropping the razors that stop performing for you in mid shave? If so, has that improved things? I share a similar beard with you as do many others here. If my razors aren't extremely keen, edges that remove whiskers with ease on my cheeks and neck can actually get stopped by my chin whiskers and require a different approach (short micro passes, different and alternating directional approaches, etc). IME, edges that crap out mid shave are either under or overhoned. At this stage in my honing, they're almost always underhoned. They don't pass the shave test. They're not ready.
Interesting theory on strop aligning an edge before bringing it back to a polishing stone for refreshing. Can you experiment with this and go to the hone without stropping, test shave and tell us if you feel any measurable difference?
Chris L
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris L
With a well used razor it's not uncommon for me to strop 3 times during a shave. If stropping doesn't improve the shave I switch razors.
I have already done that test and it seems to take less honing for a touchup if you strop first. Since I got my Shapton 16k I've experimented a lot!
My standard of exellence is will the razor comfortably shave my chin so now I strop, hone and test. Before I used to start on the 8k but now I give the 16k a try first and it normally passes on the first or second test. If it doesn't pass on the second try I do a 4/8 pyramid then go back to the 16k.
I do hope you strop between honing and testing. It greatly helps in smoothing out the shave, as well as ensuring that the edge is properly in line and cutting to the best of its ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusTexShaver
I must say, stropping before honing seems to make perfect sense. On the down side, I wonder if it helps to preserve any fatigued metal- something I think should be got rid of.
I have switched razors while shaving, but I don't like it. I don't especially like the idea of having to strop mid-shave. My expectation is the razor should at least be capable of 1 shave without retouching of any kind. If it doesn't I blame my sharpening technique. In time that blame may be transferred to the razor as simply not good enough. I still have a ways to go before I feel comfortable with that assessment.
I try not to blame the beard though-it's not a factor I can change.
I look at the edge under magnification before I hit the hone. The condition of the edge determines the grit I start with. IOW, if there are chips or a burr I might start with 2K rather then 4. As far as stropping, in this thread mparker 762 said;
"I once took a Wostenholm wedge and sliced through cardboard until it was too dull to shave armhair even with pressure. It took a bit more than a thousand laps on linen before it would shave as well as it did before. That sounds like a lot, but it was only about 45 minutes of stropping - my right arm wasn't working right for a few days after though.
I don't think the leather really does much sharpening. I've tried to get moderately dull razors sharp by stropping on leather with only minor improvement after hundreds of laps. But the linen on the other hand can make dramatic improvements in the edge".
mparker762 again in this thread;
"I've been doing a lot of experimenting with stropping lately and one thing I've noticed is that I have been drastically understropping my razors these past years. If I only did 10-15 laps on the linen and 30 or so on the leather then my edges would last about ten days. But if I did 40-50 on the linen and 30 or so on leather then the edges didn't really deteriorate at all over several months (Stainless razors need far fewer laps on the linen to keep a great shaving edge). So I've suspected for awhile that for me at least corrosion was the big edge-killer, and these photos demonstrate that this is certainly plausible. I've also noticed that my linen was turning black after a few months of this, which led me to believe that the material coming off the blade was the black oxidation. I think these photos have also convinced me that a mild abrasive on the daily strop may not be an inherently flawed idea, especially if you happen to live in an area with tap water that causes more rapid corrosion than is depicted in these photo or skin chemistry that causes the same problem. If the purpose of the strop is to abrade away the corrosion, then a little help can't hurt, the trick is to not overdo the stropping in this case".
I haven't tried stropping before honing but now I do the 50 linen and 30 leather before shaving and it is working well for me .
I do a few strokes on the linen (10-20) to clean the edge of soap or skin residue
before honing.
- Scott
Ok, let me chime in and say that you stating what is above combined with everything else here has me wondering- How long have you been shaving and how many razors do you use?? It sounds like not veeeery long. If that is the case (and even if it's not) and you are using three razors during a shave because you think the first two need touchups (but you only honed them days/weeks ago) then something is wrong and it ain't your razors so to speak. Maybe you need to revisit your honing technique? Once I hone a razor well (usually the first time), I don't need a touchup for months and months using a bunch of different razors in rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusTexShaver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelph
Excuse me for not having a large enough collection and soft enough beard that I can pass one on to my grandchildren before it needs sharpening.
You are in your own words admittedly new to honing, so why be defensive when someone says your technique may fall short of greatness?Quote:
Originally Posted by AusTexShaver
You are excused.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusTexShaver
Pre-honing ritual:
Lock the door & close the curtains.
Put on my "Karate Kid" headband and lucky Spiderman pajamas.
Crank up Bethoven's 9th on the Hi-Fi
Light as many Tabac scented candles as will fit in my Liberace commemorative candelabra.
Do a shot of Jack Daniels
Begin honing...
Sorry Tex, but I gotta agree with Alex here. I'm not trying to give you a hard time. Glad to have ya, but how about a bit of an idea of what tools you're working with? You should be able to go through quite a duration between hones with proper stropping. Pretty much regardless of the razor wire beard you're shaving through. Where your tools play a part in this is: I want to know what kind of steel you're working with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelph
Quote:
Originally Posted by AusTexShaver http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...s/viewpost.gif
I've gotten spoiled since I've finally figured out how to hone so
You are in your own words admittedly new to honing, so why be defensive when someone says your technique may fall short of greatness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AusTexShaver http://straightrazorpalace.com/image...s/viewpost.gif
Excuse me for not having a large enough collection and soft enough beard that I can pass one on to my grandchildren before it needs sharpening.
You are excused.
Sorry, I was tired when I wrote that so was a little irritated that my original question had somehow morphed into a question of my abilities. I also worded the "finally figured out" badly and what I meant to say was making the leap from a standard 4k/8k/linen/leather progression decent shave to a finely polished scary sharp buttery smooth squeegie experience.
I also never implied that I was having to hit the hones weekly and use 3 razors per shave...only that when the edge does run out (regardless of whether it takes 10 shaves or 100) I don't finish shaving with that razor.
While I will probably never achieve the level of greatness as those who do it for a living I will say that a razor I got sharpened by Lynn only lasted about 10 shaves more than the one I did myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpave777
OK, I'm gonna bite on just one more of these "it's either your ability or your equipment" posts and then I'm not responding to anything other than my ORIGINAL question of does it help to strop before honing.
I don't recall mentioning anything about duration in any of my posts so how did this end up with everyone believing I'm ruining 3 freshly honed razors per shave?!?!?!?
Equipment is Norton 4/8k, Shapton 16k, and chromium oxide pasted strop. Right now I have a Dovo special and a TI doing an every other day rotation.
Experience is irrevelant as doing something wrong for years isn't as important as how many times you have done it correctly. Let's just say on a scale from one to ten where Lynn is a ten I'm about an eight.
Now I must go and abuse the TI on the wire brush of my chin whiskers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphim
FINALLY...true trade secrets!!!
I'll try swapping out my Batman pjs but I've had such good luck with the "Stones" Satisfaction that I'm reluctant to give that up. :D
I have this from a couple of dudes that I have great respect for in their knowledge of sharpening, how to get a lasting edge. They say you must cut away enough to get past the fatigue, which is work hardened and becomes very brittle.
Straightening the edge on a strop may be a great idea, but if you don't hone enough- leaving the fatigue behind -your edge may enter a perpetual cycle of chipping.
what does it look like through the spyglass?
When I was abusing the paste i had similar issues. a quick smooth razor with short lived durability.
I 've read the thread. Got puzzled as to why things got a bitty snappy. (whispering): maybe it's the blue.:D
Anyway, fine hone setup, if you ask me.
It's easy to hone an extremely fine edge with the 16K and the CrO strop. An edge that will most likely not take the beating of a coarse beard very well. I think you are experiencing that. The 16K will already leave an extremely fine, yet fragile, edge. Doing anything more on the CrO will refine it even further, while all it needs is just a few very light smoothing laps. 3, maybe 4.
Moreover, once you hit that keeness level on a razor, subsequent touchups of the (far too easily) microchipped edge, bring you write back at that same edge. It's a vicious circle. Oddly enough, the solution is in that same CrO strop. Stropping the razor with a more than average slack and some pressure for about 30 laps will round the edge to a healthy sturdiness. Rehone on the 16K but don't overdo it (hard to tell from here where you must stop). As said, finalize with 3, maybe 4, light laps on a taut CrO strop to extinguish the harshness of the 16K.
Another sidenote: "borderline honing" is walking a thin line. Some razors will take the keeness you're after, and others will not. In my experience, this isn't even brand or model related.
As for answerring your original question, I don't see how stropping prior to honing could make any difference to the end result. A strop, albeit an extremely fine and slow one, is just another abrassive. Anything it can possibly do, will be wiped away by the first lap of a hone.
Best regards,
Bart.
I concur with Bart, above.
I used to try and take my honed edges down to 0.5 micron diamond lapping film. But I found that lead to overly fragile edges.
What I now do, is to stop after the 3 micron (same as 8k), and then hit it with a few rounds of Crome Ox. Fabtastically sharp, and smooth.
I agree with Bart as well. Stropping before hand will be overshadowed by honing. Maybe if you just touchup on Chrome Ox it could help, but I haven't tried it. Other than that, most razors I hone I reset the bevels on because they are restores of some sort. So I don't have much prep of the razors edge themselves before actually honing.