Giving up on honing and straight razor shaving...

I know someone may say "we talked about it many a time" but i'm really frustrated.
I purchased my straight razor together with a strop and a honing stone of 12000 grit (it was the only one that was available). Obviously my razor wasn't "shave ready" as it was advertised so my face looked like a battlefield after first shave or like this: :chop:

I realized it needed some honing so i did about 20 strokes on the hone just before next shave. Now the shave was much better but it was far from perfect yet. I understood that the razor is not sharp enough. I decided to hone the razor again. I read on the forum that using 12000 grit stone needs to do 50..100 strokes to make it work. I did so but the razor didn't pass HHT. I honed it again for a few hours in a row but it didn't pass HHT (I tested the razor every 10..20 strokes). The thumbnail test seemed to be ok (i felt sensation of digging the blade into the nail). No matter how long i honed but the sensation felt on the thumbnail didn't change at all.
The surface of my honing stone looks as if it were covered with fat somewhat (when water is poured onto it it doesn't soak into int but stays in the form of "puddle" on the surface). The surface is extremely smooth and i get impression that it doesn't touch the blade at all (i use X-pattern because the stone is narrow)
Is it possible there is something wrong with the hone ?

I've never honed a razor myself so I might be wrong but have you lapped the hone? I thought about it because of the puddle you mentioned... And furthermore, isn't 12K a grit too high to start honing a non-shave-ready razor? Maybe you should go down to the 4K and 8K before you tackle the 12K. My thoughts only. I'm sure some of the more experienced guys will chime in in a while. Good luck though! And DON'T GIVE UP!

You need more coarse hone to do that. Your stone is a polishing stone and cant do what you want.
Did you ask or read on forum what hone you need?
Read this: http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...ing-razor.html
I just post what I did with razor and how. Btw that's my first honing attempt.

And dont give up, simply ask things and your life will be easier.

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Z

You can't necessarily trust that a razor claimed to be shave ready actually is. If the bevel has not been set, then you could hone for hours on a 12k and not get anywhere. It's kind of equivalent to rubbing 1000 grit sandpaper on a tree limb--you first have to start with something much more coarse. You probably need to start with a hone that is more coarse to remove metal before going on to the 12K that polishes it.

Regarding the hone, lots of finer grit hones don't really soak up the water but it should not bead water. It might have oil on it. Has your hone been lapped? Where did you get the hone, strop, and razor? If it was on-line can you provide the link?

If you have not actually given up, I will help you. I will hone your razor and/or lap your hone for free except for shipping. PM me if you are interested.

Unfortunately 12000 grit was the only one i could get (maybe i will look for 8000 but it seems it will be very difficult). I lapped the hone (i hope i get this right - my native language is Polish and i understand "to lap" as to "keep it in the water for some time" - right ? Please correct me if i'm wrong).
The strange thing is that the sensation i feel when drawing the blade along the thumbnail doesn't change at all.

The razor is DOVO 5/8. The hone producer is unknown but i think you are right that the grit is too fine to start honing.

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Originally Posted by kekon

Is it possible there is something wrong with the hone ?

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It's possible but unlikely.

Just a tip: Don't foul up a shaving edge by running it along your thumbnail.
If you want to sharpen a troublesome razor, you might want a spare that you can shave with in the meantime. You may find you need more practice, more tools, more patience, more practice, etc before it ever shaves

Just to add some extra info: don't trust the HHT. It is a parlour trick, and not a real edge test.
The only real test is the shavetest. There are so many factors in a successful HHT that it is not dependable if you are new to honing.

A failed HHT does not mean that the edge is not good.

Thank you very much for replies. It seems to me Utopian is absolutely right. I need coarser hone first.
Another thing i forgot to write - the edge on one side of the razor looks somewhat differently (it looks as if it had different angle).

To lap is to flatten the hone. Leaving it in water is to soak it, that is only done if the hone needs to absorb water. Generally the finer hones do not absorb much water. Lapping is done to make sure that the hone is perfectly flat and to remove and bits of grit that might be sticking up slightly.

The thumbnail test is only done to check for chips or nicks in the blade. After you get a smooth and biting sensation with the nail test there is no need to do it any longer--and it will not change. You then need to move to the thumb pad test to check for progressively greater degrees of sharpness. The sensation of the blade gently cutting into your skin is what you are looking for at that stage. As the blade gets sharper the sensation will change. If you need the TPT thumb pad test explained just let us know.

I did not realize you were in Poland. You clearly don't want to ship your stuff that far. If you keep asking here, we can probably help you out.

Well, the stone is perfectly flat. The thumb pad test always gives the same sensation (no matter how many strokes i do on the hone) - the blade slides over the pad very smoothly but doesn't cuts into the skin much (i use very light pressure). I found an old ordinary razor blade by Wilkinson and it seems to be sharper when i slide it along the pad.

Then I believe you are right. You probably need a coarser hone. Where did you get this "shave ready" razor?

I bought the razor via the Internet (something like "eBay"). It was not used (but i don't know where he got one)

If the bevel is set and the stone is working, you've put a wire edge on it with that much honing and it won't cut well and raze your face like mad. I suggest you get it professionally honed and strop carefully. Don't give up yet, you've just hit the first bump in the road. It's a big bump, but still easy to land safely from.

X

Have you tried stropping it ? If not, I would try 50 to 60 laps on the leather before anything else and see if it passes the hair test or if you think the edge got better.

If as you say, the bevel is not the same on both sides there could be a bow in the blade. Have you used a marker on the bevel to see if the bevel is OK ?


McKie

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Originally Posted by McKie

Have you used a marker on the bevel to see if the bevel is OK ?

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FWIW, even if the marker test is passed (metal being removed in the right spots) it does not give a positive answer as to whether the bevel is correctly SET and SHARP. You mentioned getting it from eBay and using the TPT (blade sliding over the pad smoothly and not cutting in much)... I would put money down that you do not have a good bevel set on your razor. You will need more than a 12,000 grit hone to set that in less than a few hours. I seriously suggest in your case sending the razor out to be honed. I don't think you'd regret it. In a best case scenario someone might offer to do it for you for free. I however cannot, sorry. Really though I think you should send it out. Don't just give up yet.

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Originally Posted by kekon

Unfortunately 12000 grit was the only one i could get (maybe i will look for 8000 but it seems it will be very difficult). I lapped the hone (i hope i get this right - my native language is Polish and i understand "to lap" as to "keep it in the water for some time" - right ? Please correct me if i'm wrong).
The strange thing is that the sensation i feel when drawing the blade along the thumbnail doesn't change at all.

The razor is DOVO 5/8. The hone producer is unknown but i think you are right that the grit is too fine to start honing.

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Lapping a hone: when people here say you should lap a hone what they are saying is that it should be given a perfectly flat honing surface. This can be done by placing some 800 or 1000 grit wet & dry sand paper on a sheet of glass and rubbing the face of the hone across it. (use water on the paper)

You can check for flatness by making a series of pencil marks on the surface of the hone before you start. once all the pencil marks are gone your hone should have a nice flat surface (provided that the glass (or backing) you layed the paper on was flat.

and as has already been said DO NOT GIVE UP!

P.S. Dovo's are NOT shave ready from the factory...

I think you have about enough advise for one post. However, I would just like to encourage you not to give up. Given a flattened hone and a light touch you should be able to achieve your goal. I would suggest a slightly coarser hone to tune your blade. 12K is really for final polishing.

are there any old barber near where you live. if there is then you could probably go and talk to them, the guys in their 70s usually know how to hone a razor and would probably hone it up for you, as they dont see anyone anymore that is interested in straight razor shaving. my barber when i told him i was interested gave me an old razor that needed some work and a barber hone to sharpen it with, i took it home and worked on it untill it was right and honed it took it back to him and he was tickled about it, i have been trying to get his 7 day set of friodurs from him he bought for $50 from a returning soldier after ww-2

I advise you to send your straight to Lynn for honing. Then you will have the sharpest blade you ever had in your life, and will know what it's truly like to shave like a man.

I'm not giving up yet, you encouraged me in this thread, thanks :)
I stropped the razor (about 50 strokes after honing) but it didn't have any effect.
However, before i make my straight razor work correctly i must shave with my old multiblade razor for some time. I will look for a barber or someone else to hone the razor for me. Anyway i need to buy any 4000/8000 hone (i'd like to learn how to hone).

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I advise you to send your straight to Lynn for honing

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That's impossible because i live in Poland and it would cost much more than my razor itself.

Again, thank you for all the pieces of advice; i'll try to keep you informed on my progress.

I'm living in Wrocław and would be happy to hone your razor for you if you want.
Send me a PM if you are interested.

I've gotten pretty good at honing my seven blades and I haven't passed the HHT once. So don't let that bother you. I have passed the thumb nail test but I always rehone after that because I think it kills the honing I just did. I like the thumb pad test because I can tell if it's sharp without killing the edge. But as has been said, there is only one test that matters - shaving.

That looks like a really nice razor so keep at it if it doesn't drive you crazy. this is a lot of fun, but I think honing is the hardes skill to learn.

Don't give up on straight razor shaving just yet.. For starters, get a better tool. While it's possible to hone up a blade with a 12k stone, it takes forever and a half. Others gave you good honing advice, but if I were you, I'd get another razor, have it professionally honed and have something for reference. While I'm not a honemeister, I can still get an edge shave-ready and would be happy to hone one for you.

I've just found someone who can sell honing stone 6000 grit. It's not cheap - about $70 (made in Belgium).
I think it will be much better than 12000 grit that i currently have. If honing fails again i will send it to someone who can do it well.

Kekon,

I don't think you are listening.

To use a straight razor is one thing.

To hone a straight razor is another.

To keep a sharp razor sharp is a third.

If I were you, I would stop wasting money.

First take up the free offer of having your razor sharpened. When you get it back, don't play with it but shave with it. I hope you are listening.

Second, study this forum to understand how to keep the razor sharp and do it.

Thirdly study this forum and learn about hones before wasting money by trial and error.

Ask before you buy.

In this way you will learn slowly and succeed.

If you rush at it, I will guarantee that within a month you will give up.

You need to be patient, it isn't all that easy and you have to learn as you go.

As said before, it's an art.

Good luck with it and I'm sure with patience you will enjoy straight razor shaving quite soon.

English is right.
It takes some shaving experience to learn how to hone. (you need to be able to evaluate your results)
I takes a razor, sharp without any suspicion, to learn how to shave. (you need to be sure any problem is caused by your shaving technique instead of by a blunt razor)

Combine the learning of both skills, and you'll most likely end up very frustrated.

I really advice you to take Nickyspaghetti's offer to hone your razor for you.
There's plenty of time to learn honing later, when you learned the basics of straight razor shaving.
Right now, you need to focus on shaving and stropping. That really is a big task as it is.

Best of luck,
Bart.

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First take up the free offer of having your razor sharpened.

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I've just decided to do so.