Yet another "Help me decide on a Hone" thread. *sigh*

Sorry guys, I know you're all sick of all the "what hone should I buy?" threads, but I'm stuck, too.

OK, here's what I have...

Just ordered today: DMT Dia-Sharp 8E (1.2k equiv), DMT Dia-sharp 8EE (8k equiv)

Stuff I already have: an ancient 3 line Franz Swaty, a Tony Miller four sided paddle strop, pasted 1.0, .50, .25, and bare. I also have a bunch of 3M papers, but I'm not planning on continuing to use them after my DMT's get here.

What I plan to do: I really like the honing aspect of straight razors. About as much as the shaving, really. So I'm going to be buying and honing lots of ebay razors and giving them as gifts. I also have a bunch of old straights that were my great grandfathers. So I do have quite a bit of honing in front of me.

I just sent one of my razors off to Glen today so I have a benchmark razor that will be my standard to which all of my honing jobs will be measured.

I'd really like a "finishing stone" in the 12k-16k range, but I really don't want to spend the hundred bucks on a Shapton. Also, since I'm a total newb, I'd prefer a stone with a relatively gentle learning curve; I'd rather not have to do slurries, no slurries, wet, then dry on the same stone to get a finished edge, but at the same time, I'm not *totally* against it, either, if it'll save marital strife when the Visa bill arrives.

So my head is swimming with the possibilities.... Chinese 12k's, shaptons, coticules, etc. etc. etc.

What I'd really like is a relatively cheap stone that's gonna give me a good finish. LOL, I guess that's what we *all* want, really. :)

Help?

Here's my advice, and your spouse will love it; don't buy anything else at this point.

I don't see anything wrong with a hybrid hones and pastes system you're poised to start learning with. If you have pastes down to .5 micron and have .5 chrome ox, you've got the finishing covered. You'll certainly have the bevel setting covered as well with the D8E on the opposite end of the spectrum. Sure you may want to add some more stones in the future, but I speak from someone whose done what I'm advising you NOT to do: Go off the deep end with HAD before really mastering a perfectly effective progression.

So, I say try what you've already started to set up and see how that goes for you. You've already got the pastes for finishing. Not wanting to spend $100+ on a finishing stone that you don't have any lapping, water, possibly slurry etc, is a tall order if you're thinking of something other than a coti, etc.

Chris L

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

What I'd really like is a relatively cheap stone that's gonna give me a good finish.

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A relatively cheap stone that's gonna give you a good finish is a 12,000 grit Chinese stone available at woodcraft.com for $20 or $30 depending on the size you want

Chris just gave you some good advice though :)

Chris gave you sound advice... a remarkable feat from someone with HAD! :D

(Like I should talk......) :chop:

But really..... you have *enough*,so learn to use what you have first. You may decide you would like something *else* down the road but it won't necessarily be *better*, only different, and the difference might be in the feel or convenience of use rather than performance. An example would be the fine Shapton hones... they buy me *SPEED* more than performance..... I can get a great edge from a Coticule, but not at the same speed as the Shaptons and as I have both, the Shaptons gets used quite a lot. However, there are times when I'll grab the Coticule just because of it's *feel* and the way it polishes and cuts.... there is no right or wrong, only what you feel comfortable with. You won't be able to figure that out until you become as proficient as you can with what you have first. Adding more tools to the equation when you haven't learned how to use what you have, solves nothing but the hone salesman's bottom line, aka his profit!

So, for the record, what you have in the way of hones/strops/pastes will hone any razor I have to a shave ready state, but would not necessarily have been my *first* choice of tools. But with that said, I could get by with what you have just fine, and so can you.

Regards

Christian

Now... if you are just dying to spend some more money..... I'd say it would be pretty hard to go wrong if you pick up a coticule! :w I rarely *need* anything else to maintain my razors.... restore.... yes, maintain.... nope.

I started using the 8EE and paddle strop with pastes down to 0.25. I have been shaving almost a year now and am just now starting to buy a couple of hones. You are set with what you have. When you get the razor back then you can keep it going for well over a year without even using the 8E unless you put a chip in your razor. When your technique is refined and you have learned how to really get around your face with a really sharp razor you can refine what you expect from your honing process. With 0.25 paste you can get some wickedly sharp razors. Just give it a stopping of at least 100 laps before you put it to your face to calm it down a tad.


Take Care,
Richard

Excellent advice everyone, thank you! I think I'll stick with what I have until I can consistently turn out some *truly* shave ready blades.

Although I must admit that thirty buck Chinese 12k is gonna be hard to pass up... ;)

I also suggest that the wife would like the 12k much more than any other finishing hone - I know my wife loved it!:nj

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

A relatively cheap stone that's gonna give you a good finish is a 12,000 grit Chinese stone available at woodcraft.com for $20 or $30 depending on the size you want

Chris just gave you some good advice though :)

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As a matter of fact Chris L has some of the Chinese stones in the classifieds on the forum The ones that he cut lengthwise + a slurry stone. A good deal. If you decide to go that route get him to send you some chromium oxide for the clean piece on your 4 sided paddle. That stuff is like magic.

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Originally Posted by riooso

I started using the 8EE and paddle strop with pastes down to 0.25. I have been shaving almost a year now and am just now starting to buy a couple of hones. You are set with what you have. When you get the razor back then you can keep it going for well over a year without even using the 8E unless you put a chip in your razor. When your technique is refined and you have learned how to really get around your face with a really sharp razor you can refine what you expect from your honing process. With 0.25 paste you can get some wickedly sharp razors. Just give it a stopping of at least 100 laps before you put it to your face to calm it down a tad.


Take Care,
Richard

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That is *really* good to hear. I shaved with my Puma today that had 75 laps on the 1 micron diamond paste, 50 laps on the .50, then 50 laps on the .25 micron paste. It was passing the HHT all the way down the blade. I only did 25 laps on the bare strop, though, and the shave was *harsh*. So much so that I didn't finish the WTG pass under my chin; it was just too irritating. Looks like I need to spend some more time on the bare leather.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

That is *really* good to hear. I shaved with my Puma today that had 75 laps on the 1 micron diamond paste, 50 laps on the .50, then 50 laps on the .25 micron paste. It was passing the HHT all the way down the blade. I only did 25 laps on the bare strop, though, and the shave was *harsh*. So much so that I didn't finish the WTG pass under my chin; it was just too irritating. Looks like I need to spend some more time on the bare leather.

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Is your .5 and .25 diamond pastes? If so, you really need some chrome ox to smooth the edges. Check out the hone section of the classifieds for some.

Chris L

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Originally Posted by Chris L

Is your .5 and .25 diamond pastes? If so, you really need some chrome ox to smooth the edges. Check out the hone section of the classifieds for some.

Chris L

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I just bought one of your Chinese 12k's. I just couldn't help it. :) Yes, the .5 and .25 are diamond pastes. I only have one bare side on the paddle strop, but Tony treated it to give it increased draw, so I doubt I could put chrome ox on it; I'd need to buy another paddle strop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

That is *really* good to hear. I shaved with my Puma today that had 75 laps on the 1 micron diamond paste, 50 laps on the .50, then 50 laps on the .25 micron paste. It was passing the HHT all the way down the blade. I only did 25 laps on the bare strop, though, and the shave was *harsh*. So much so that I didn't finish the WTG pass under my chin; it was just too irritating. Looks like I need to spend some more time on the bare leather.

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I am not a pro by any means but you are way over doing the laps. Diamond paste cuts very quickly. I do not do even half what you are doing, and just to interject, the laps that I do have no added pressure on the blade at all, the lighter the better. I hear the Chromium smooths a blade very well also and knocks down the harshness, I have often wondered if Chromium after the 0.25 would work but I defer to others that know. Personally I like the 0.25 because I shave with a very light touch and cuts that do happen are almost non-existent. YMMV


Take Care,
R

Yeah, that is definately too much on the pastes - I usually do 10-15 on .5 and then take it in 5 lap steps if it isn't up to scratch. If you do too many it does create a harsh edge, usually the first shave is killer then the edge tends to degrade in my experience.

If you really aren't going to use those 3M honing films any more you can send them my way, PM me and I'll send a self adressed envelope.:)

My system is now just honing film and a swaty for touch up. It works for me giving easy consistant results.

THats all there is to it really picking a system that will work and getting ggod enough with it so it works for you. Then you can look at the drawbacks to the system you are using and see if they are somethng you want to live with or if another stone or system would do away with the things you can't live with.

For me I don't like to have to lap, I don't do a lot of razors, or hone often and I hate to spend a lot of money. The Honng film system solves allthese problems. If I did a bunch of razors, or really enjoyed working for that perfectly honed edge The films would leave me short and i would go back to stones.

I see you can buy .3 micron honing film on woodcraft - I guess that would give you a much better edge than on paste - comparable to a hone. Is that right? if so I might put off buying the shapton 30k for some honing film.

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Originally Posted by nickyspaghetti

I see you can buy .3 micron honing film on woodcraft - I guess that would give you a much better edge than on paste - comparable to a hone. Is that right? if so I might put off buying the shapton 30k for some honing film.

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Once you get down and below the 1 micron level, it's very hard to determine which side of the paper has the abrasive on it. If you get the papers that have an adhesive backing, it's much easier. :) The paper that comes with the adhesive backing is more expensive, but it's worth it.

When you go to apply the film.... fill up your kitchen sink with about six inches of water. Put your marble tile (or whatever you're using for a flat surface) in the sink. Add a few drops of dish soap. This will prevent the adhesive from sticking so hard to the tile, but it'll still stick hard enough. Remove the adhesive backing from the film, submerge it, lightly apply it to your flat surface, work the air bubbles out, roll your finger down it firmly to stick the adhesive to the flat surface, and you're done.

The only problem I have with the honing films is that they wear out very quickly. On the coarser grits, it's easy to tell when they're worn out. On the one micron (the smallest I have) it's very hard to tell when it's worn out. I've gotten into the habbit of changing them every fifty laps.

Forum search is a wonderful thing :) (when it works)
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi..._Abrasive_Film

Edit: I see you have read that thread, FloorPizza, did you find it helpful?

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Forum search is a wonderful thing :) (when it works)
http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...de-review.html

Edit: I see you have read that thread, FloorPizza, did you find it helpful?

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Very much so. Wildtim's information was fantastic, as were all the tips about applying the films to a flat surface.

I really enjoyed using the films, and honestly, if they didn't wear out so fast, I never would have bought my hones.

I think I've read just about every thread there is on honing now. :)

Nick,

I can't tell a bit of difference with the .3 honing film vs .5 chromium oxide. I have the film from woodcraft, and I'd spend my money elsewhere if I had to do it over again.

We always talk about particle size in microns, but particle SHAPE is important too. That's why people get a smoother shave off of .5 Chromium oxide vs .5 diamond.