Stone set (mainly shapton) buying advice?

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11-12-2008, 06:50 AM
Quick

Stone set (mainly shapton) buying advice?

I plan to get a set of stones sooner or later. I could wait a few months if stores have regular big annual sales or something like that. I probably won't be doing any major restores. Always a possibility of an eBay razor or two in the future. Always the possibility of dinging one of my good blades and I am thinking of maybe trying a modification (see my 2" double spike point thread :)). So basically routine touch ups and lite usage otherwise. I like the glass shaptons. Top of the line stone with max performance, minimal maintenance and should last me the rest of my natural life.

I've browsed a bit and originally I was thinking:
DMT D8C (325 grit) for a lapper: $37 +s&h (and maybe tax?) Amazon. 44.84 +$394 tax at Craftsman Studio
Shapton 1000: $43
Shapton 4000: $56
Shapton 8000: $80
Shapton 16000: $100
DMT stone holder: $15

So all that would be about $330 + maybe $20 for shipping (different places or tax here) so we're talking roughly $350 - $360

Now I see that Craftsman Studio has these shapton 3 stone sets that include the shapton 3 stone holder/station. They price the holder/station at $60. Their Straight Razor Set includes the 1000/6000/16000 and the set holder/station for $235 -- basically they're throwing in the holder/station for half price at $30.

1) Is the holder/station worth it? I know you can do without but is it *really* convenient? worth $30?

2) Can I make do with the 1000/6000 instead of the 1000/4000/8000 I had originally planned? Keep in mind that I will mostly be doing touch ups so I do want the 16000. Could I reasonably set a bevel with the 1000 and then go from there to the 6000 and jump to the 16000 (on the rare occasions I might do that? Or would that be a rediculous amount of extra work. If I did minor repair with the 6000 I'd still be jumping to the 16000. I do plan on getting the DMT D8C for lapping so I guess I could start a bevel on that if need be?

Going with the D8C/1000/6000/16000/holderstation I'm looking at $303 (free shipping but since I live in CA they're going to charge me tax).

Deal? or No Deal?
11-12-2008, 07:37 AM
IsaacRN

I really think the stone holder is worth it IMHO. Its pretty solid and holds the stone just right. If your not doing any real ebay project type razors, I would skip the 1k shaptonn and go with the 4/8/16. Im assuming that these arent the shaptons on glass...am I correct in that assumption?
11-12-2008, 07:41 AM
syslight

i occasionally have HAD...

i would recommend the 1k, 4k, 8k, and 16k shapton SRD and the perfect edge both have them ... not sure on the prices so shop around... the holder is great and raises the stone enough so you don't rap your knuckles on the table, while securely holding the stone... get it you will be glad you did

the dmt is not alway flat especially at the corners so you will need to be careful not to gouge your shaptons on them... i know there is a thread about sanding them down...

the 16k is great ... do you have any other finishing stones? you might find a coticule or one of the 12k chinese stones people talk about will help lower your cost and still produce a great edge.
11-12-2008, 07:46 AM
nerobot

Personally, I don't have a stone holder and don't really think you need one. The DMT is pretty heavy and so is quite stable anyways. If your getting the DMT D8C I don't see any need to buy a 1k stone, going on what you have said.

Just my thoughts.

Steven
11-12-2008, 07:46 AM
Quick

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

I really think the stone holder is worth it IMHO. Its pretty solid and holds the stone just right. If your not doing any real ebay project type razors, I would skip the 1k shaptonn and go with the 4/8/16. Im assuming that these arent the shaptons on glass...am I correct in that assumption?

If I did the 4/8/16 then I wouldn't be able to set a bevel or repair chips would I? Or could I go from the D8C straight to the 4K?

Yes, these are the shaptons on glass.
11-12-2008, 07:51 AM
IsaacRN

You can set a bevel and repair chips with a 4k...I thought i had read that your mainly doing touchups. I would recommend getting that 8k. Jumping from the 6k to the 16k might be a big step
11-12-2008, 07:56 AM
Quick

Quote:

Originally Posted by syslight

i occasionally have HAD...

i would recommend the 1k, 4k, 8k, and 16k shapton SRD and the perfect edge both have them ... not sure on the prices so shop around... the holder is great and raises the stone enough so you don't rap your knuckles on the table, while securely holding the stone... get it you will be glad you did

Do you think that more of a necessity or a preference/convenience recommending the 1/4/8 over the 1/6? The 16K would get used routinely and I expect to get on the lower stones only very occassionally.

Quote:

the dmt is not alway flat especially at the corners so you will need to be careful not to gouge your shaptons on them... i know there is a thread about sanding them down...

Can you check flatness with a good aluminum ruler or do you really need a precision straight edge?

Quote:

the 16k is great ... do you have any other finishing stones? you might find a coticule or one of the 12k chinese stones people talk about will help lower your cost and still produce a great edge.

No other stones at all (the kitchen and pocket knives could use some help too). I thought about the coticules and chinese but I got the impression that they're a bit less convenient to use, require more maintenance, and are likely to need replacing within my lifetime (I'm figuring I got 20 to 30 years left tops :))
11-12-2008, 12:39 PM
2Sharp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick

I plan to get a set of stones sooner or later. I could wait a few months if stores have regular big annual sales or something like that. I probably won't be doing any major restores. Always a possibility of an eBay razor or two in the future. Always the possibility of dinging one of my good blades and I am thinking of maybe trying a modification (see my 2" double spike point thread :)). So basically routine touch ups and lite usage otherwise. I like the glass shaptons. Top of the line stone with max performance, minimal maintenance and should last me the rest of my natural life.

I've browsed a bit and originally I was thinking:
DMT D8C (325 grit) for a lapper: $37 +s&h (and maybe tax?) Amazon. 44.84 +$394 tax at Craftsman Studio
Shapton 1000: $43
Shapton 4000: $56
Shapton 8000: $80
Shapton 16000: $100
DMT stone holder: $15

So all that would be about $330 + maybe $20 for shipping (different places or tax here) so we're talking roughly $350 - $360

Now I see that Craftsman Studio has these shapton 3 stone sets that include the shapton 3 stone holder/station. They price the holder/station at $60. Their Straight Razor Set includes the 1000/6000/16000 and the set holder/station for $235 -- basically they're throwing in the holder/station for half price at $30.

1) Is the holder/station worth it? I know you can do without but is it *really* convenient? worth $30?

2) Can I make do with the 1000/6000 instead of the 1000/4000/8000 I had originally planned? Keep in mind that I will mostly be doing touch ups so I do want the 16000. Could I reasonably set a bevel with the 1000 and then go from there to the 6000 and jump to the 16000 (on the rare occasions I might do that? Or would that be a rediculous amount of extra work. If I did minor repair with the 6000 I'd still be jumping to the 16000. I do plan on getting the DMT D8C for lapping so I guess I could start a bevel on that if need be?

Going with the D8C/1000/6000/16000/holderstation I'm looking at $303 (free shipping but since I live in CA they're going to charge me tax).

Deal? or No Deal?

If I were buying Shaptons from scratch I would go with the 4K, 8K, and 16K to start with the Stone Holder. The Stone Holder raises your hone about 2" from the table and weighs about 4 lbs [Nice]. You will need a shallow tray to set the holder in to keep the water off of the table. The 1K is used for bevel setting and at $43 would be a nice addition. The 6K to the 16K is a pretty big jump so I would prefer to go with the 8K. I don't touch my blades any more with the DMT's as they are too rough. They put deeper scratches into the metal and take longer to smooth out and also grind the spine down faster. The Shapton 1K cuts the bevel into your blade almost as fast as the DMT and is much smoother. I have DMT's and use them for my kitchen knives. They are also good for lapping your hones.

bj
11-12-2008, 12:59 PM
zepplin

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Sharp

The Shapton 1K cuts the bevel into your blade almost as fast as the DMT and is much smoother. They are also good for lapping your hones.

bj

I have the Shapton 1K and I rarely use it. I prefer the 1200 DMT for setting my bevels. I know the Shapton 1K is smoother, but I like the aggressivness of the DMT. When I get an Ebay blade that is in very poor shape, my DMT just has more cajones than the mild mannered (but smooth) Shapton 1K. My opinion, of course.

Steve
11-12-2008, 01:41 PM
Ben325e

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

I really think the stone holder is worth it IMHO. Its pretty solid and holds the stone just right. If your not doing any real ebay project type razors, I would skip the 1k shaptonn and go with the 4/8/16. Im assuming that these arent the shaptons on glass...am I correct in that assumption?

Isaac, I'm pretty sure these are the glass stones. Who'd go pro when they have the glass? plus, the 16k isn't available in pro.
11-12-2008, 02:15 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Isaac, I'm pretty sure these are the glass stones. Who'd go pro when they have the glass? plus, the 16k isn't available in pro.

I am the "voice crying in the wilderness" on this topic. When I was deciding whether to go glass or pro I did a lot of reading and studying. I went pro. I got 15mm of honing stone versus 5. I got a heavy duty plastic container to store the stone in which doubles as a stable honing platform. No there is no 16K but there is a 15K. The proof of the pudding for me is that the pro series does a magnificent job. AFAIC, the pro is the way to go. :gl:
11-12-2008, 05:53 PM
Quick

I really appreciate all the input so far.

It just occurred to me that the SET holder is different than the STONE holder.

Quote:

the Shapton Set Holder provides a stable sharpening base and storage for up to three GlassStones.

I'm assuming the utility as a sharpening base is equivalent? I'm guessing the set holder is lacking the weight of the stone holder. With the set(s), which include the set holder, you get about $30 off. The set holder by itself costs $60 and the stone holder $75. If there's a large difference in utility then that might push me over to going alacarte... (over analysis? heh, I'm an engineer with OCD :))
11-12-2008, 09:39 PM
Ben325e

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

I am the "voice crying in the wilderness" on this topic. When I was deciding whether to go glass or pro I did a lot of reading and studying. I went pro. I got 15mm of honing stone versus 5. I got a heavy duty plastic container to store the stone in which doubles as a stable honing platform. No there is no 16K but there is a 15K. The proof of the pudding for me is that the pro series does a magnificent job. AFAIC, the pro is the way to go. :gl:

Info from shapton regarding the glass stones from their website:

Shapton® Glass Stone™ abrasives have been carefully manufactured to achieve the highest levels of performance and durability. They may appear thin at first glance but, don't let that fool you. They will out last most other stones that are three times the thickness. These abrasives are extremely uniform. Consistency is the primary goal for Shapton's engineers. The abrasive that you encounter with the first pass will be the same on the 5,000th pass. And, this will be true for every every abrasive size.

Apparently in shapton glass math, (5mm glass) =/> (15mm anything else)!

Not to mention the price: 130 for the shapton 15k vs 99 for the glass 16k,
and 635 for the pro 30k vs 280 for the glass 30k. (prices in MSRP)

If you leave out the 220, 3000, and 6000 stones, you can buy the entire shapton glass series for about the same price as the pro 30k. That's a lot of pudding.
11-13-2008, 04:14 AM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Info from shapton regarding the glass stones from their website:

Shapton® Glass Stone™ abrasives have been carefully manufactured to achieve the highest levels of performance and durability. They may appear thin at first glance but, don't let that fool you. They will out last most other stones that are three times the thickness. These abrasives are extremely uniform. Consistency is the primary goal for Shapton's engineers. The abrasive that you encounter with the first pass will be the same on the 5,000th pass. And, this will be true for every every abrasive size.

Apparently in shapton glass math, (5mm glass) =/> (15mm anything else)!

Not to mention the price: 130 for the shapton 15k vs 99 for the glass 16k,
and 635 for the pro 30k vs 280 for the glass 30k. (prices in MSRP)

If you leave out the 220, 3000, and 6000 stones, you can buy the entire shapton glass series for about the same price as the pro 30k. That's a lot of pudding.

Yes, I read all of that and more when I was making my decision. Reminds me of Mark Twain,"There are lies, there are damn lies, then there are statistics". :)

IOW, I don't necessarily believe the hype. I don't have any of the glass stones. The fellow that sold me his Shapton Pro 15k sold it to me to finance buying the 16K glass. After he got it and used it some he told me that it is really good but no better then his 15K pro. :shrug: He is IMO of honemiester status so I took what he said seriously and went with the pros for the rest of my Shaptons. I probably woul've been as happy with the glass but I really do endorse the pros. YMMV.