why do razors warp? tips on honing them?

i have a couple ebay razor i bought for real cheap that i would like to practice honing on, they are both warped though not really badly, but enough that i noticed right away. i am just wondering why they warp and if anyone has any tips on honing them. i always use the X pattern but usually mix it in with a straight pattern to try not to get all the scratch patterns going the same way (20 laps X and then 20 straight).

i am by no means set in my ways with honing as i am pretty new so any advice would be great. thank you.

The blades usually warp due to one side of the blade having more stress than the other due to heat treat, quenching, grinding or other heat applied to the blade. Very similar to people having back problems due to the muscles on one side of the back pulling harder that the muscles on the other side. To hone do not lay the blade flat on the stone, hole the toe off the hone and start with the heel on the hone's edge (After rounding the edges of the hone) and draw the blade off the side of the hone and down towards the other end of the hone at the same time. When you get past the half way point towards the toe lay the blade down and finish the stroke while still moving the blade towards the edge of the hone. Do not let the tip of the blade fall off the hone, leave about 1/4 of the blade length at the tow on the hone when the stroke ends. Use very little pressure, almost none. Flip the blade on the spine and repeat in the opposite direction. Use this method, but doing circles until you are ready to perform a TNT, then do the strokes w/o circles for about 5 strokes and test. I would move away from the 20 strokes one way and 20 strokes the other. Set the bevel with circles, 5 or so strokes w/o circles and TNT. When you feel the blade is sharp for the complete length start doing pyramids (See wiki) but with the heel first, toe off the hone, silde off the edge of the hone and down the length until past he half way point and lay the blade on the hone for the remainder of the stroke. Test by shaving the hair on your fore arm. When you are comfortable w/ fore arm test strop and test shave. :gl:

Check this out..especially video no 9 http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...eo-series.html

As can be imagined, this has been discussed in various forms many times here. Many have concluded (spearheaded by Josh Earl IIRC) that "WARP" is a catch all phrase that is often not completely accurate. More often, and custom razor makers and those few that really have not only a high level of experience collecting razors but also truly have an eye for the manufacturing process and how to identify abnormalities, "warping" issues happen in the grinding stage and not in heat treatment, stresses, etc.

A shorter way to put it: screwed up blades are probably more often due to grinding errors. Spine not ground properly/perfectly on one side, etc.

Narrow hones and the rolling hone stroke are used to hone the entire edge of razors that don't lie perfectly flat on both sides of the blade. You could hone for ages on such blades using wide stones and not get a properly honed edge across the entire edge.

Now here's my thing: I don't have a ton of razors (approx 100) or a ton of experience; I have yet to see ANY razor that truly absolutely lies perfectly and solidly flat on both the entire length of the spine and the bevel on both sides of the razor. The law of large numbers would undoubtedly assure that such razors exist, but either they're not that common, or every &^((^*%$%$$ razor I pick up has been tweaked to some degree from new to vintage and in between.

I would categorize a truly flat perfectly ground razor to be one where marker on both bevels would evenly vanish with a single complete pass on a moderate grit stone with virtually no effort and consistently stroke after stroke after stroke if tested.

If anyone is absolutely confident they have such a razor that they would be willing to sell for a moderate price, please PM me.

Chris L

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Originally Posted by Joed

. Set the bevel with circles, 5 or so strokes w/o circles and TNT.

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first, thank you for the ideas and suggestions as i will use them, i assure you. second i thought i knew what circles were but i am now confused. i have used them on a non-warped razor by just putting the whole blade flat on the hone and doing small circle but this wouldn't work with a warped razor as the whole edge doesn't touch the surface of the hone. so there must be a different way. if you would please elaborate that would awsome, setting the bevel is the hardest thing for me right now as it seems to take forever.

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Originally Posted by chee16

second i thought i knew what circles were but i am now confused. i have used them on a non-warped razor by just putting the whole blade flat on the hone and doing small circle but this wouldn't work with a warped razor as the whole edge doesn't touch the surface of the hone. so there must be a different way. if you would please elaborate that would awsome, setting the bevel is the hardest thing for me right now as it seems to take forever.

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I use the same method as setting the edge on the edge of the hone except that in place of moving the blade off the sied of the hone and spine first to the end I move it in circles. It takes a little getting use to but gets easier after a moment or two. Start at the heel and draw the blade off the side of the hone spine first while moving to the end of the hone with the toe off the hone. After passing the center og the blade lay the blade flat on the hone and finish your stroke. At the end of your stroke the toe and about 1/4 of the blade shoukd still be on the hone. Don't flip the blade yet and just reverse your motion to go edge first. A small arch in your motion at the end of your stroke makes the motion more fluid hence circles. Note, when I say keep the toe off the hone for the first half of the stroke I mean just a degree or two will do and be sure to use extra light pressure or you will roll the edge. :gl:

chee, can you more accurately define what you mean when you say "warp" please?

X

For a warped razor I often use 0.875" wide fine 600(sometimes) and extra-fine 1200 mesh diamond hones until the bevels are set (any narrow material of roughly the same grits, or finer, will work). Use the marker test to be sure you're hitting the entire edge, on both sides. The razor's concave side will likely be the trickiest to get the hang of. Don't drag the tip of the razor off of the hone or you'll probably round the tip. Once you pass the marker and TNT at the same time, you should have a nice bevel. To finish, I use the 0.5" edge of a Swaty barber hone, rounded on both bearing corners. Use very light pressure and check the edge often.

If you are just learning to hone, I would suggest you learn with a razor that isn't warped...it's a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by xman

chee, can you more accurately define what you mean when you say "warp" please?

X

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sorry i guess warped can mean a lot of different things eh. i have a couple different problem razors i think. they are both cheap practice razors i bought on ebay for like $4-5 so i don't mind experimenting on them. the one is what most people call warped, on one side the middle doesn't touch when layed flat on the hone and the other side the toe and heel don't touch. the other is a bit more inconsistent then that, i think it was reground as it is stamped with Baileys, Brampton Ontario (o could be wrong though) but the blade has some mean grind marks on it. they are kinda weird, though they are deep grind marks they are uniform, and there is one row for the hollowing of the blade and then another that makes up about the 2mm of steel on the edge. like i said i could be wrong but none the less it is a good practice project. i will have to have another look at it (i am at work and the razor is at home) to give a better description of the warping.

BTW i have been working on my rolling X stroke and it is coming along much better, i am just working on the bevel of that suspected regrind (i will post pics when i get them). i am being patient though as i have 4 sharp razor (2 shave ready, 2 popping hairs but not so smooth).