Sharpening Stainless Steel

So last night and today I've been working on sharpening my Hess 44 stainless. It's the first SS blade I've sharpened.

It had some microchipping in it, so I decided to start from scratch; work out the microchips with some light breadknifing, set the bevel, sharpen, refine, etc.

I used a DMT 8E for the breadknifiing and bevel setting. This part took a very long time. After all the visible microchips were removed, I'd set the bevel, then looked at the edge again. I kept getting new microchips after setting the bevel with the 8E. Apparently, the 8E is just a bit harsh for such a brittle blade? I was finally able to get an acceptable (but not perfect) bevel using the very lightest touch I could. And then I had to stop before the blade was really as sharp as I would like to see coming off of the 8E.

I then went to the 8EE. Again, I had to use the very lightest strokes I could. This took *forever*, and countless number of strokes. I had to start over again several times after getting an unacceptable amount of micro chips in the edge. I was about ready to lose my cool at this stage, it was taking so long, and the chips kept coming back. I finally got an edge with just a few microchips that was acceptably sharp.

I then put some 1 micron 3M film on a marble slab. It took 200 laps to remove the marks from the 8EE. This was followed up by 50 laps on .25 diamond paste, and 200 leather.

The blade looks very good (but not perfect) under the microscope. There are no visible scratch marks, but there are a few microchips.

I'm gonna go shave with it right now...

Is it normal for stainless steel to be so brittle and difficult to sharpen??

If it doesn't pass the shave test, I'm going to start over again, only this time using 3m films for the entire process. The DMT's just seem too harsh.

hey so did those DMT's ever workout for you on the Carbon Steel blades? i have had troubles lately with a SS blade (i posted about it) and the microchipping could be the problem i am having also as the most magnification i have is 10x. the thing seems nice and pops hairs like it should but doesn't shave worth a crap, lots of irritation and really doesn't cut well. i went back to the 8k norton and then the 12k chinese with slurry and then without last night but haven't shaved with it yet. i am going to after work thoug so we'll see. i am very interested to hear how your shave goes, good luck.

BTW, i'm sure you have come across this in readings here but a couple post i have read talk about breaking the DMTs in, i think one guy used an old wood chisel on its edge. i haven't looked into it as i don't have them, and again i'm sure you have read it but thought it worth mentioning. good luck

It really depends on what Stainless steel alloy its made from. I just honed a Fridour 8/8 Squarepoint- it literally took me about 6 hours of work to get it where I really wanted it. I also have a H.Wacker INOX that isn't as hard but micro-chips very easily. I found that once the chips appear I take it all the way back to the coarse hones and reset the bevel. (1K or 2K Shapton glass hone) then I found the Wacker responded very well to Natural stones with VERY light pressure. After setting the bevel I used a coticule with slurry,coticule with water and then a blue/green escher. No chips:D. I found that .50dp on a balsa strop followed by CrOx gave a very smooth shave.

So to answer your question, it is not uncommon for certain stainless steels to be difficult to hone-or at least that has been the case in my experience.

Advise to how your shave goes. I've never had luck with .25 micron diamond paste, it has proven to give me harsh feeling edges-even if I finish with CrOx. Today, I shaved with the Wacker INOX-prior to the shave I gave it 10 laps on my newly acquired 30K Shapton glass hone followed by 10 laps of CrOx on a balsa paddle. The edge was very keen, +HHT and gave a very smooth shave and was MUCH keener than off the diamond paste--For a while though, untill I figured out what that particular Stainless Steel blade required to prevent it from chipping, it had never really been a stellar performer.:rolleyes:

:gl:

I have found the Wackers sometimes (60%) to be rather finicky on the hones.....when you get them dialed in right, they sure do slice nice though...

The Hess 44 however should be very straight forward, and very, very, smooth when done correctly, in fact it is the smoothest SS edge that I have ever felt...

Chee, it's been a love/hate relationship with the DMT's. I did break them in as was suggested, and it seems to have helped some, but I'm still having problems with them microchipping the SS blade. The DMT's aren't microchippiing the regular steel, though. I do like how quick they are to cut, they just need *alot* of refining on the higher grits afterward, though.

I'd rate the shave with the Hess SS at a B-. It's just not quite to where I know it can be.

Lt., thanks for the very helpful information! I just wish I had that kind of hone selection to chose from. Unfortunately, right now my only choices are the DMT's and 3m films. It's good to hear that the SS blades can be tricky to hone.

When I get a chance (I have about six blades I gotta get done first), I'm going to revisit the Hess with the 3m films. Hopefully they won't microchip the edge like the DMT's.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have found the Wackers to sometimes (60%) to be rather finicky on the hones.....when you get them dialed in right, they sure do slice nice though...

The Hess 44 however should be very straight forward, and very, very, smooth when done correctly, in fact it is the smoothest SS edge that I have ever felt...

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I gotta get it to that point... I just don't think the DMT's are gonna allow that, though. Micro-chipping buggers that they are.

I had some pretty good luck with the 3m films before I switched over to the DMT's... hmm.. maybe those six other blades can wait for a while... :)

Did you break in that DMT before taking a straight razor to it? That's a really important step. I use the flat back of an old wood chisel to do my breaking in. The steel will take down any high diamonds that could cause a chip when rammed into with the .001" edge of a razor. If you're going to use vertical draw strokes to get the blade to the back of the chips, I'd rather see you using a Shapton 1000 or something like that. The DMTs can cause microchipping with certain steels and certain razors.

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Originally Posted by Howard

Did you break in that DMT before taking a straight razor to it? That's a really important step. I use the flat back of an old wood chisel to do my breaking in. The steel will take down any high diamonds that could cause a chip when rammed into with the .001" edge of a razor. If you're going to use vertical draw strokes to get the blade to the back of the chips, I'd rather see you using a Shapton 1000 or something like that. The DMTs can cause microchipping with certain steels and certain razors.

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Yeah, I broke in both of the DMT's with the handle of an old, large Craftsman screwdriver.

And honestly, I'd rather see me using a Shapton 1000, too. :)

I'm starting to understand how people spend *alot* of money on hones. Right now I'm really thinking about getting a DMT 8C for lapping, then the following Shaptons: 1k, 4k, 8k, 16k

Maybe the hones still need some more breaking in.? Really, hit up the hones with the screwdriver until the scratch pattern on the screwdriver smooths out. Don't just say "I'll give it 20-30 laps, or what have you. Keep breaking it in until you see evidence of change in the scratch pattern.

Otherwise, why not just go with the films? That pretty much all I use for all my honing. 9um, 6um, 3um. I've used 1, 0.5, 0.1 in the past, but wasn't too impressed with those results. Actually, the 1um is still pretty nice, but below that I didn' think the edge held up at all.

I have seen little to no difference in honing my stainless blades versus my carbon. Perhaps that's because I use diamond lapping film, and it cuts through pretty much anything. I had no issues sharpening up a Tosuke, which are well known to be difficult to hone due to the high carbon edge.

Micro chipping while setting bevels on my D8E was what prompted me to get my Shapton pro 1&2K stones. End of the problem. I still use the D8E for some jobs. Depends on the razor.

Here is a quote from one of Joe Chandler's old posts,"I won't be getting rid of my Tam O' Shanters or Dalmores, coticule or Eschers...some razors respond better to the slower, softer cutting actions of these stones, and they remain a valuable part of my arsenal of honing stuff. Wackers, for instance, because they're so hard and "chippy" seem to love the TOS's. It cuts and hones without microchipping, which I had a lot of problems with on other, more aggressive hones".

OK, so I took another shot at sharpening the Hess today. I *very lightly* bread knifed the micro chips out of the edge with my Chinese 12k.

I then reset the bevel with 15 micron 3M film, using the very most gentle pressure I could. I hadn't taken much of the bevel out with the 12k, so this didn't take very long. About 40 laps, and it passed the TNT along the entire blade, with ZERO Microchips! Yay!

I then went to 5 micron 3M film. Again, using the most gentle passes I could. I did this until it was passing the HHT and shaving arm hair above skiin level. I didn't count, but I'd say around 100 laps. Again, no microchips!

When I ordered my 3M films, the place was out of 3 micron film, so I had to jump from the 5 micron film all the way down to 1 micron. Yeesh. It is very, very difficult to tell when 1 micron film is worn out, so I did 100 laps on one piece, replaced it, then did another 100 laps on the second piece. And yes, I was careful about "overhoning"; I stopped honing as soon as the scratch marks from the 5 micron film were gone. Plus I think you could hone for a year straight on one micron without overhoning.

The 1 Micron film was my final stop. I decided against the 12k chinese for fear of microchipping, and didn't feel like creating any sort of rounded edge from the diamond pastes on the paddle strop.

Under the microscope, the edge looks amazing. There are no visible scratch marks at 100x, and the edge is arrow straight. Narry a chip to be seen.

Guys, this is *the* sharpest blade I've ever seen. Whenever I've gotten a blade to do the HHT, there's usually a bit of a "catch" feeling, and a bit of a "ping" from the blade as the hair is cut. Not this time. The hair just lays over the blade like it had it's back broken. No catch, no noise, nothing. I know the HHT is not the end all/be all of sharpness tests, but for me to get the HHT to this level is a break through, especially since the edge looks so smooooooth. Often times, it seems that the HHT is passed because of a rough edge that snags, holds, then cuts the hanging hair. This results in a pulling, tugging shave, which is exactly what happened to me last night with this same razor. But seeing an HHT like this, makes me think that the HHT might be a valid test, if the "Pass" truly is that... a "pass", and not a ragged edge catching the hair and pinging the blade.

I can shave the very finest of arm hair with zero pressure with this edge.

If this doesn't pass the shave test, I'm gonna be at a total loss...

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

OK, so I took another shot at sharpening the Hess today. I *very lightly* bread knifed the micro chips out of the edge with my Chinese 12k.

...

I can shave the very finest of arm hair with zero pressure with this edge.

If this doesn't pass the shave test, I'm gonna be at a total loss...

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I would think that dropping to a lower grit instead of taking the edge to a hone would be less work, even with very light pressure.


Unorthodox, but it seems to have worked for you. :gl:

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Originally Posted by joke1176

I would think that dropping to a lower grit instead of taking the edge to a hone would be less work, even with very light pressure.


Unorthodox, but it seems to have worked for you. :gl:

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The blade micro chips very easily on low grits, which caused the problem in the first place. That's why I went with the 3m films, too; much more gentle on the blade than my diamond-based DMT's.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

The blade micro chips very easily on low grits, which caused the problem in the first place. That's why I went with the 3m films, too; much more gentle on the blade than my diamond-based DMT's.

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Interesting stuff. I wonder, now that you have it all cleaned up, what would happen if you took it back to the coarse stone again?

I had a Torrey that did the same thing, and I gave it to nun2sharp (after I reset the bevel and rehoned it about a dozen times).

He reset the bevel AGAIN, and no more crappy chippy edge. Makes me wonder about microchipping, and if it isn't just bad steel that's oxidized and fragile. :hmmm:

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

The blade micro chips very easily on low grits, which caused the problem in the first place. That's why I went with the 3m films, too; much more gentle on the blade than my diamond-based DMT's.

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That's why I love the lapping films! They are velvety smooth to hone on, don't you think?

I use diamong lapping film (much different than the diamond hones), as it lasts a very long time before wearing out. I've tried a couple of different types of stone hones, but I quickly come back to the films for the ease of use, quick cutting, and the fantastically uniform edge it can put on a razor.

Give us a shave update when you use it!:rock:

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Originally Posted by joke1176

Interesting stuff. I wonder, now that you have it all cleaned up, what would happen if you took it back to the coarse stone again?

I had a Torrey that did the same thing, and I gave it to nun2sharp (after I reset the bevel and rehoned it about a dozen times).

He reset the bevel AGAIN, and no more crappy chippy edge. Makes me wonder about microchipping, and if it isn't just bad steel that's oxidized and fragile. :hmmm:

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It's a stainless steel blade, so I don't think it's oxidation that is the problem, I think it's just that stainless steel overall is a bit more brittle than regular old carbon steel. Supposedly the Hess isn't as brittle as some SS, though. Man, I'd hate to run across SS that *would* be considered brittle; this has been a big enough PITA as it is.

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

That's why I love the lapping films! They are velvety smooth to hone on, don't you think?

I use diamong lapping film (much different than the diamond hones), as it lasts a very long time before wearing out. I've tried a couple of different types of stone hones, but I quickly come back to the films for the ease of use, quick cutting, and the fantastically uniform edge it can put on a razor.

Give us a shave update when you use it!:rock:

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Yeah, they really are smooth to hone on, I just wish they would last longer. I have a web site bookmarked that sells the diamond lapping films (in fact, I think I got the site from one of your posts), but I ended up ordering the 3m films instead. I'm anxious to try the diamond films...If you get a chance, could you post a link to the films you use so I make sure to get the right ones?

The shaving test was a resounding success. Smoothest straight shave I've had so far. It would seem that the Hess 44's reputation as being one of the smoothest shavers out there is very well deserved. It's so far and above anything else in my rotation, I don't think I'll even *have* a rotation anymore; this is gonna be my daily shaver.

Edit: Forgot to mention... I have tried, and failed each time, to do the "fool's pass" from Xman's video on my upper lip. No blood has been drawn, but I have young sapplings for whiskers that grow out of super sensitive skin. So the pain level peaks before blood is drawn, luckily. The Hess allowed me to do a "fool's pass" on my upper lip. Well, it was a modified fools pass: it was XTG and ATG at the same time, but that's still more than I've been able to do with a straight prior to the Hess.

The epiphany moment with the Hess was just as great as when I used a professionally sharpened blade for the first time. It was *that* much better than anything else I'd used prior.

I had high hopes for it after Lyn and Glen both said it was a fantastic shaver. I wasn't disappointed at all.

I'd love to get a "My best shavers" list from the gurus like Lyn and Glen, so I can quit wasting time and money on the lesser blades, and start collecting top performers like the Hess. It really is that good.

congrats on the success! i believe the saying is theres more then one way to skin a cat. i always wondered where that one started but. good job.

Chee, how you doin' with that stainless steel Puma you've been working on?? Do you have a microscope to check for microchips? OMG, that was so annoying... You work like crazy to set a good bevel, look through the scope, and the edge is crap.

I'm anxious to hear how that goes, cause I have a regular carbon steel Puma 85 that I love. It was in first place as far as shaving comfort prior to the Hess. I picked it up off of ebay for around 20 bucks, removed the scales, sanded the bejesus out of it, polished it, cleaned up the scales, and now it's one of my favorites. I'm anxious to pick up a SS Puma now.

I'm hoping that your SS Puma gives you such good results!

i actually set the SS Puma aside for a bit recently as i wanted to get my W&B perfect. i shaved with it today and it was pretty good so i think my attention will go back to my Puma now that i have a couple smooth shavers (i also have a Boker that i like).

my next coarse of action with the Puma is to go back to the 4k and put in some time, then progress. but i am really going to concentrate on my pressure staying light. i normally keep it light but i think a bit more attention to it is in order. i am really hoping to get this one nice and smooth and sharp of coarse but i have heard they are really nice. i don't have any 3M films or anywhere near me to buy them but if all else fails i will try them, but i'm hoping my nortons do the job. i'm sure many others have honed an SS Puma on nortons and gotten great results so why not me. i'm still thinking about a DMT 325 for lapping and bevel setting though. the paper works good but is costly

i have asked for a 100x microscope for christmas so we'll see. i asked for a badger hair brush too so i'll probably only get one of the two. ha!

chee16 heres a link to the microscope many of us use. It isn't exactly in the same catagory as a nice brush, so both is a possibility. Even if one of the is both to and from yourself.

Radio shack microscope

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

chee16 heres a link to the microscope many of us use. It isn't exactly in the same catagory as a nice brush, so both is a possibility. Even if one of the is both to and from yourself.

Radio shack microscope

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that would be great but i have no Radio Shacks around me anymore as they all turned into the source. i will check them though just in case though thanks.

presents that are to and from myself are pretty sweet but i have gotten a lot of them lately :rofl2: