How do you know your hone needs lapped without lapping it? I understand the trick with the pencil pattern when lapping a stone. Let's say I buy a stone pre-lapped and I use it for a while. How can I tell when it needs lapped again?
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How do you know your hone needs lapped without lapping it? I understand the trick with the pencil pattern when lapping a stone. Let's say I buy a stone pre-lapped and I use it for a while. How can I tell when it needs lapped again?
Hope this helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick
Regards,
Viktor
Nice. But how about this? Hone Lapping 101 - Straight Razor Place WikiQuote:
Originally Posted by Viktor
My first question would be what kind of stones, the next question, how many razors are you honing per week????
The pointer to Howard's post was a good answer. Use a precision straight edge and look for light. Apparently a $3 ruler has enough precision for the job. Good enough. Thanks Viktor.
I guess that leads to the question of how bad does it need to get out of "flat" before it needs attention. Howard says if you don't see light under a precision straight edge then it IS flat enough. Kees implies (http://straightrazorpalace.com/140974-post4.html) that 1mm out of flat might be ok... I think you'd see a lot of light with a 1mm dish.
Personally, I'm thinking of a set of Shapton glass hones with a D8C. 1K, 4K, 8K, 16K. And I only expect to have at most 7 to 10 razors with maybe 3 or 4 regularly used in a rotation. If I guy them flattened then I'd expect I might only have to lap them 3 or 4 times for the rest of my life :). But the question was more generic since I suppose I could end up with other stones. I would expect that with any stone, technique might make a difference in how they wear and they might also get used for something other than razors as well. So I wouldn't want to judge when they need flattened by how much/long they've been used.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
BeBerlin, your pointer to the wiki did not answer the question (thanks anyway though). I said I knew about the pencil procedure when lapping, but I wanted to know when it needed lapped without actually have to do it to find out. I did think of using the pencil marks when honing but I don't know if the graphite would effect the stone surface or have an effect while honing a razor.
I know you're on a bit of a crusade for the wiki at the moment :rant: so I'm not adverse to a bit of side discussion on that. I read Howard's post (pointed to by Viktor) and then I read the wiki article by JoshEarl that you pointed to (that didn't answer the question). So I thought of your posts on the subject and figured "heh, I can help out here and modify the wiki like BeBerlin suggests". I don't think Howard's single post would warrant it's own wiki article but just adding that post to JoshEarl's wiki article could have a lot of benefit.
First off, JoshEarl's wiki article is closed so I can't add to or modify it right?
Secondly I got to thinking that Howard is a vendor. Maybe Howard (just this example, could be any vendor) wouldn't want his information put in the wiki? Some vendors might consider their information as part of their business and want people to ask permission before sharing it or posting it somewhere else. Certainly this could be an issue.
I suppose a link to the post in the wiki would have been ok. Are links in a wiki ok? or is it preferable to have the actual information there since the target of a link can move, be deleted, or become unaccessable.
Well, now that you have brought up the Shapton glass hones... the answer changes and for that very reason. The Shaptons will load more quickly than most hones, there just isn't any space between the grit particles for swarf due to the resin binder so you'll need to use something like a diamond lapping plate for *cleaning* well before needing to actually flatten them. I can usually tell when water no longer wets the surface evenly, but rather beads up in spots... a few strokes on the DMT and the hones are back to their quick cutting selves again. Considering the significant investment in a set of Shaptons, a DMT D8C does not add that much to the total cost.
(And quickly re-reading your last post, I see you have allowed for a DMT which is fine, just lap when the hones look dirty and aren't cutting as quickly as they used to. For me, that's about after 4 or 5 uses).
Regards
Christian
Now THAT I wasn't aware of. Thanks. I suppose cleaning them that often (a few strokes every 4 or 5 uses) with a DC8 would pretty much keep them flat as well right?Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptain_zero
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick
Yes !!! I do my Shaptons every 10 razors but I tape every spine so I have half or less than half of the amount of swarf...
And as I have only one razor that I use tape on and I rarely hone it, six and I are about equal with my stones getting gunked up twice as fast as his! Still, I don't keep a count, I mainly go by the appearance of the hone and the water on top.
Christian
I guess I should made my every 10 razors more clear, as in whether they look to need it or not :D
But I do agree with the Kapt'n when they don't feel like they are cutting the same I lap them but I have found that every 10 is well within that criteria.... FOR ME :D YMMV of course
PS: It is also my understanding that the Shaptons swell slightly when they are new and need more lapping during that period, I did not experience that at all, did anyone else????
I lap my Shaptons (16K & 30K) before every honing session. Now, I don;t mean I grid it, and go till the lines are gone. I just refresh the surface each time with a DMT8F.
I seem to recall discussion that the polymeric resin (or some other scientific-sounding jargon) would swell with water, and not shrink uniformly after drying. This could cause high spots in the honing surface, and result in problems while honing.
I believe the swelling/shrinking/warping mostly referred to the Pro line of hones which were all resin. Shapton introduced the glass hones , partially as an attempt to reduce that problem, though to be honest I don't think it ever was a *real* problem, but rather a geeky, yes it actually exists and can be measured.... barely, issue. :D The other problem with the Pro hones, was the reports that they would break easily when worn to about half their thickness and again, the glass hone substrate of the new hones will allow you to use *all* the abrasive without such problems.
Personally, I follow the advice I once received in a fortune cookie which read" Never trouble trouble unless trouble troubles you." or as I would phrase it: If it works, don't fix it!
Regards
Christian