HONES! I need help

I ordered a new razor gift set from dovo. It came with a 2 sided strop, cup, soap, brush, razor, and brush stand. The problem is i forgot to click the option to have them hone it before they send it which means i probably will have to hone it before i shave with it. The problem is i am looking for hones and they are all around 70 bucks for a 4000/8000. Also my reading leads me to beleive that 8000 isnt quite fine enough, so i will need to go even finer. My question is do i need to go finer than 8000 grit or do I just strop after that to get a good shave? Also, where can I find these 20$ hones i keep hearing about? A lot of the hones i find don't have the grit, it just says fine or ultra fine. Would this be a good hone to buy? VintageBladesLLC::...

Welcome!
If the razors are new you usually can manage with a coticule to get them shave ready. Used with slurry they cut a bit faster, final polishing without and you are in business. Probably best to send one to a honemeister to get a bench mark razor. Buy a cheap one on ebay to practice.

The cheap ones you keep hearing about are probably the Chinese 12K stones: Buy Natural Polishing Water Stone, Water Stones - Woodcraft.com

Let us know how you progress!

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Originally Posted by Kees

Welcome!
If the razors are new you usually can manage with a coticule to get them shave ready. Used with slurry they cut a bit faster, final polishing without and you are in business. Probably best to send one to a honemeister to get a bench mark razor. Buy a cheap one on ebay to practice.

The cheap ones you keep hearing about are probably the Chinese 12K stones: Buy Natural Polishing Water Stone, Water Stones - Woodcraft.com

Let us know how you progress!

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+1, Great advice :tu Welcome to SRP !

As the other gents have mentioned, if you are not skilled in honing, best to send the razor to someone who can hone it for you this first time around. I would strongly suggest looking for a second razor, a used vintage razor that is not expensive would be perfect, you can find one in our Classified section and they will usually come honed and ready to go. This way you can use the new razor and the used, but then work on your honing skill with the used, inexpensive razor that you won't have to worry about and all the while you'll have a second razor to compare to when it comes to measuring your honing success.

If I had to limit myself to only one hone to start, it would be either the Norton 4k/8k or preferably a Belgian Coticule. The Coticule is capable of honing from start to finish (but at a slight speed disadvantage over the Norton using slurry- no slurry- lather etc.) and the resulting edge is excellent. Being that we are enthusiasts with more money than brains half the time, we tend to go overboard in search of the *perfect* edge, when all along we could be shaving in fine style with just the Coticule and possibly a pasted paddle strop for good measure (the latter with Chromium Oxide won't cost that much and is not needed, though many of us like the extra smoothness it produces).

The Norton hone seems to be harder to master (well, it was for me when I started out) but it's flexible with the two grits and is more of a work horse hone but the finish requires more skill from the honer to achieve a great edge without moving up to a Coticule or other finishing hone. My edges improved drastically when I got my Coticule and as long as I don't nick a blade, I don't have a need for a coarser hone.

I'm pretty sure that VintageBlades has coticules, as does theperfectedge.com and several others.

Regards

Christian

Thanks for the posts guys, I will check the forums to have someone hone my blade the first time.

You've purchased a quality tool, now buy a quality hone to make it useful. There are major differences in hones and the difference shows up in the price. Even 8000 is not 8000 when it comes to different hones. An 8000 in a Norton 8000 stone won't sharpen nearly as well as an 8000 belgian coticule. The standards for natural and artificial stones are not equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Howard

There are major differences in hones and the difference shows up in the price. Even 8000 is not 8000 when it comes to different hones. An 8000 in a Norton 8000 stone won't sharpen nearly as well as an 8000 belgian coticule. The standards for natural and artificial stones are not equivalent.

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Surely the Norton hones are 4000 and 8000 grid according to the CAMI or FEPA standards? The coticule is a natural stone and as such I would imagine its abrasiveness to be somewhat variable. Could you explain what you mean by "An 8000 in a Norton 8000 stone won't sharpen nearly as well as an 8000 belgian coticule"? Is the coticule finer, coarser, faster?

I am a complete beginner, but I've bought a coticule and a Chinese 12K. Even though they are new to me, I'D say they are a great buy.

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Originally Posted by Cornelius

Surely the Norton hones are 4000 and 8000 grid according to the CAMI or FEPA standards? The coticule is a natural stone and as such I would imagine its abrasiveness to be somewhat variable. Could you explain what you mean by "An 8000 in a Norton 8000 stone won't sharpen nearly as well as an 8000 belgian coticule"? Is the coticule finer, coarser, faster?

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Grit size tells you what diameter the particles of the hone are. It does not tell you about their shape. You can imagine that a spikey or rounded particle will have different impacts on the bevel. That's why a razor honed with a diamond hone feels coarser on the face than a razor honed with a coticule.

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Originally Posted by Kees

Grit size tells you what diameter the particles of the hone are. It does not tell you about their shape. You can imagine that a spikey or rounded particle will have different impacts on the bevel. That's why a razor honed with a diamond hone feels coarser on the face than a razor honed with a coticule.

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That's very interesting indeed.

The images taken under a microscope that I've seen on that coticule / Ardennes website did not show a particular cristal shape from what I remember, but then again I havent seen the other hones' particles magnified to compare. Would you happen to have a link to such a comparison?

You don't need a picture.

The particles that do the cutting on a coticule are tiny garnets and have many sides like on a european football. Because there are more sharp pointy edges, the particles cut a lot smoother and finer than the particle measurement the grit or diameter of the particle..

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Originally Posted by Cornelius

That's very interesting indeed.

The images taken under a microscope that I've seen on that coticule / Ardennes website did not show a particular cristal shape from what I remember, but then again I havent seen the other hones' particles magnified to compare. Would you happen to have a link to such a comparison?

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I second the conclusions of this fine gentlemen:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/285357-post16.html

But in my opinion, it makes no further sense comparing Belgian hones, with their faceted honing particles, to grit ratings of synthetic hones. When used with water, Belgian hones are slow, but unique ultra polishers. When used with slurry they can move steel reasonably fast, certainly the Coticule. But it does not create the keenest edge. The Belgian Blue with slurry is slower but allows for a keener edge.
With nothing but a Coticule, it can be very challenging to improve the keenness level left by the slurry with nothing else but the slow polishing abilities of the same hone with water (or lather).
If you're going to go the Belgian way, I'd definitely add a Belgian Blue to the equation. That might save a lot of frustration.

Bart.

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Originally Posted by Cornelius

That's very interesting indeed.

The images taken under a microscope that I've seen on that coticule / Ardennes website did not show a particular cristal shape from what I remember, but then again I havent seen the other hones' particles magnified to compare. Would you happen to have a link to such a comparison?

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I am afraid not. The site of Belgische Brocken has pics of the garnets in coticules, I have never seen large magnifecations of diamond particles: Belgischer Brocken, Schleifstein, schärfen, Schärfstein, Abziehstein