Hard to Hone Razors

I’ve been honing razors for a couple of years now and would consider myself at least competent with a hone. That said, I’ve got two razors that I just can’t seem to get shaving sharp. I’ve set the bevel on both and it looks very nice and even along the length of the blade. I’ve tried various combinations of progressive honing, pyramid honing (on a Norton 4/8k and Spyderco UF), diamond past, and CrO. Both of these razors seem to be sharp but have reached a distinct plateau of sharpness. With the TPT my thumb just glides smoothly over the blades…there’s no bite or stickiness. Has anyone else had this happen and more importantly how did you solve it?

One razor is marked “Clim” with a picture of an ax the other is a “Merit” written inside a diamond, I haven’t dealt specifically with these two brands before but the results I’m getting are very similar between the two of them. Any suggestions? The obvious observation would be that there is something wrong with my technique, but I think it’s at least passable since I’ve got numerous other antique razors that I’ve restored and keep shaving sharp with no problem.

Thanks

Sounds like poor steel if your known and proven techniques aren't working.

Hey, you seem to have left out the part about how they shave, or look under magnification. Either of those two can explain a lot when other test seem contradictory.
Eww, the thought of having a bad razor is not very comforting either is it? That'd be a bummer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greenwoz

With the TPT my thumb just glides smoothly over the blades…there’s no bite or stickiness.

---

The bevel is not set, even a Zeepk will be sharp at this stage if the bevel is set right...

Go back to yer lowest grit stone and re-set the bevel until it is sticky sharp then proceed with yer normal honing routine....

A properly set bevel off a 1k stone will pop arm hair and slice yer thumb but good if yer not careful, honest it doesn't matter what razor it is....

Glen is correct! He usually is on such matters!

I have noticed same kind of problems. I have a one ERN vanadium 6/8 which seems to be a hard one to get a shave ready. I have a magnification (100x) lens and under that the bevel seems to look alright. But no shave ready edge. :thinking:
Steel information from Spyderco website.
I have figured out in this case that this one is so hard that it needs at least 3 times work comparing to my other blades. Well I don't give up yet. My hones are still limited and I haven't try all techniques (ia pyramid honing) and different pressures yet.
One of my favourite is John Heiffor's 6/8 wedge with smiling edge. It's another example of hard honing steel. It's some sort of silver steel and needs too more work than most of mine.
But in this case I get the shave ready edge into it and funny thing is that I get it a little bit easier with soft naniwa 10k stone. And the edge is quite comfortable noticing my limited experience. :thinking::thinking:. Well....what the h***, I like a lot of this blade and I'm happy that it cost me 18€.
Honing is an interesting topic due to wide range of variables.
:hmmm:

Tony, I get the impression that like me honing is as enjoyable as shaving to you. I hope you don't follow me down the slippery slope of HAD (hone acquisition disorder) :nono: :D
I too have found that all blades are not created equal. TI, some Dovos and others are for sure harder to get up to speed. For example my small collection of Dubl Ducks are all easy to hone up with the exception of the Wonderedge.

All of them came to me through ebay with micro chipping and needed to have bevels set. The Goldedge, Satinedge, Hand Froged and Lifetime were easy but the cyro hardened Wonderedge took a lot more work. I have a TI damascus that lived up to it's reputation of being a bear to hone and my new Bill Ellis ATS 34 were brutal. Once there they are great though. Thanks for the link to the Syderco glossary. Nice to have the capsule metallurgy info.

i also have a CLIM razor it wasent all that hard to get shaving it is one of my better razors i set the bevel on a 325 dmt then a bb then the yellow then a chinese 12k then strop and smooth shave .i have shaved aboyt 20 times with it and still does not need a touch up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The bevel is not set...

A properly set bevel off a 1k stone will pop arm hair and slice yer thumb but good if yer not careful, honest it doesn't matter what razor it is....

---

I need to disagree here- at least in my experience. There has been one razor that I could not get sharp. Good, but old Sheffield brand- a known one. Anyway- I honed this thing for literally hours- maybe 6 or 7 when all was said and done. It was carbon steel. No matter what I tried, the bevel would not get there. It would SEEM like it was- very sharp, passed the TNT, I even looked at the very edge straight up (to see the joining sides) under a microscope and things looked perfect. Still no matter what, it would not cut hair. Went through grits from 325 up to 8k and nothing. Up in grits, back down to 325 for a couple hours, etc. Just would not cut a hair. I swear everything about the bevel looked and felt perfect. I gave up and sent it back to the owner telling him to send it to Glen to see if he could do it and see if it frustrated him endlessly.

So at this point, I cannot answer one way or another, but do know there was a razor that I couldn't get sharp. Until I see THAT razor cutting hair- I won't believe in Glen's "any razor can pop hair" approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philadelph

So at this point, I cannot answer one way or another, but do know there was a razor that I couldn't get sharp. Until I see THAT razor cutting hair- I won't believe in Glen's "any razor can pop hair" approach.

---

Hmmmm that scares me if you couldn't get the puppy popping hair Alex, Maybe I'll need to re-phrase that statement after I see this monster...
I know he told me he was sending it out, but not here yet, I 'll pm ya after it gets to me....

You need to track down that razor and find out what happened with it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

You need to track down that razor and find out what happened with it!

---

Well a moderator owns it- so it won't go far without someone knowing about it. Glen- good luck man! If you DO in fact get it shaving, please let me know EXACTLY how! lol

I just recently acquired a TI "LeGrelot" 6/8 from Edwin Jagger-although "pre-honed:hmmm:"-it wasn't nearly shave ready.

Although a very hard steel, I was able to form a beautiful bevel on a Shapton 1K glass hone-then as I progressed and refined the edge-it promptly lost its "bite"-negative TPT. Over 6 hours or so later:cen and just about every hone I have:gth

Finally, with a balsa strop and .5 micron diamond paste, it is now a reasonably good shaver-but I was close to calling it "unhone-able":eek:.

Persistence and Patience....:D will get you through the tough to hone blades.

I tend to agree that the bevel has not been set. I know I have been guilty of doing this.

I have looked under magnification at a couple of edges that looked to be perfectly set. But they did not hone through to sharpness.

Next step for me was to put the pen marker on the spine and the edge and start again. The problem was I had not developed a perfect V edge. On one blade I had to go to a 400 grit hone to rectify matters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I need to disagree here- at least in my experience. There has been one razor that I could not get sharp. Good, but old Sheffield brand- a known one. Anyway- I honed this thing for literally hours- maybe 6 or 7 when all was said and done. It was carbon steel. No matter what I tried, the bevel would not get there. It would SEEM like it was- very sharp, passed the TNT, I even looked at the very edge straight up (to see the joining sides) under a microscope and things looked perfect. Still no matter what, it would not cut hair. Went through grits from 325 up to 8k and nothing. Up in grits, back down to 325 for a couple hours, etc. Just would not cut a hair. I swear everything about the bevel looked and felt perfect. I gave up and sent it back to the owner telling him to send it to Glen to see if he could do it and see if it frustrated him endlessly.

So at this point, I cannot answer one way or another, but do know there was a razor that I couldn't get sharp. Until I see THAT razor cutting hair- I won't believe in Glen's "any razor can pop hair" approach.

---

Oh woe unto you Alex!

The razor gods, and in particular, Glens little brother Thor, will get you for disagreeing with the Glens insight!




:gl:

I only have Shaptons (glasstones) (besides some old arkansas stones), and like a lot of folks, I have a few razors that defy my best efforts.

I was wondering if there's something to what seems to be the 'different stones for different razors' point of view? What about it, HADdicts? If you have no luck on one stone, do you move to another type of stone? Have better luck with Eschers than Shaptons?

Just curious,

cass

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cassady

I only have Shaptons (glasstones) (besides some old arkansas stones), and like a lot of folks, I have a few razors that defy my best efforts.

I was wondering if there's something to what seems to be the 'different stones for different razors' point of view? What about it, HADdicts? If you have no luck on one stone, do you move to another type of stone? Have better luck with Eschers than Shaptons?

Just curious,

cass

---

I can only speak for myself. While I don't have a lot of stones (yet :D) it's a part of the fun just to try different kind of pieces and take that feeling what kind of result is build up.
Of course I can manage with a one stone only but in my case it's not the option. Maybe I loose more money but for me it's only a money and the experiences are more worth than saving. I live only once and when I find something interesting for me I put a lot energy in to that. It helps to prevent ordinary life's ......hmmm......boredom.. :rofl2:
cheers

Tony

I've hone a few razors from scratch, and they mostly go fairly well - until I hit upon this Clauss - it has magically appearing pits. I set the bevel on the 1k, under magnification it is shiny black, the bevel is even, and has no micro chipping or any pitting. I start to go up the 4k and a few passes on the 8k, go under the microscope, and the pits have reappeared.

I've honed it for close to 12 hours, but have hardly even taken off 1/32nd of steel - either that steel is hella hard, or it's swiss cheese and just mocking me.

I feel your pain, greenwoz, Glen, Alex...all of you! Boy, do I feel your pain!

But like everything else, we must carry on! Defeat is not an option! And other worldly epithets!:rofl2:

Mark

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cassady

I only have Shaptons (glasstones) (besides some old arkansas stones), and like a lot of folks, I have a few razors that defy my best efforts.

I was wondering if there's something to what seems to be the 'different stones for different razors' point of view? What about it, HADdicts? If you have no luck on one stone, do you move to another type of stone? Have better luck with Eschers than Shaptons?

Just curious,

cass

---

It has been said many times that certain razors respond better to certain stones. I have seen this myself. OTOH, sometimes I wonder if it isn't the Indian rather then the arrow. :shrug:

I have run into an occasional "stubborn" razor. Each time it has been a well known brand and it seemed that the more I honed them, the more they simply perplexed me. I don't have a clue why this happens, but it does and I can only say that it's good to know I am not alone here........:D

What I have found is that usually just doing something different will bring the razor around. Sometimes it is changing a stone, sometimes more polishing strokes and sometimes a progression of pastes if I am getting close.
It is rare that I'll go all the way back to square one although I used to removing a lot of steel on the way. One good test on a stubborn razor is Glen's method of staying on the 4K stone until the razor shaves the hair on your arm and then go from there.

Have fun,

Lynn

Good to know that even Lynn has a hard time with some of them having honed thousands of razors. :tu