Getting rid of lines from 4k Norton

Hope this question makes sense :o

I've been honing for a while now and I think I can get quite good results, and the shaves are good as well (much better than I ever got from DE shaving. So, I'm happy with the sharpness of the edge, but when I look closely at the edge I can see lots of lines on the edge from the honing. Noticed this for a while, but today I got myself a small 100X magnifier and started to look closely at the edge while honing a new razor.

I noticed that even though I get a good sharp razor, the lines from the 4K Norton will not go away. I use the pyramid method and find that the 8K side doesn't get rid of the 4K lines. I also use a silkstone, followed by a dragon's tongue hone (both British), and then chromium oxide on strop. These give a very nice edge to the razor, but don't get rid of the lines from the 4k hone.

Is this normal, or am I missing a step out somewhere that should get rid of these lines. I would really like to get the edge looking really polished, but there are just too many lines from the 4k for this to happen.

Sorry for the long question, and hope someone has an idea what's going on :hmmm:

Steven

I think you said it yourself. The 8K with the pyramid method isn't removing all of the 4K scratches. The apparent solution would be to stay on the 8K for additional strokes, removing the 4K scratch patern, before proceeding to the finer stones.

Also be weary of the results of the shave when complete. You may like the edge you have now. Further changes do not always bespeak of improvements.

I don't focus on removing the scratch pattern of the previous grit. Maybe because I only have 30X magnification ? I feel the sharpness with the TPT and then move up in grit. When I feel it is sharp enough I shave. :shrug: If it is good enough I leave it alone and if it isn't I hone some more.

:)Hey HMsensei I cannot discern your meaning, but if I were to make my own interpretation you are saying there is an inconsistency that allows to 4k to stay as it should not remain long when all is bespeaking true planes

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Also be weary of the results of the shave when complete. You may like the edge you have now. Further changes do not always bespeak of improvements.

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Yea, exactly! :p

Or another way. Looking at an edge with 100 magnification makes for some long fruitless bevel polishing sessions.

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Originally Posted by nerobot

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I've been honing for a while now and I think I can get quite good results, and the shaves are good as well (much better than I ever got from DE shaving. So, I'm happy with the sharpness of the edge...

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If the razor beats any DE shave you've ever had, I would accept the scratches as a by-product... :D

I agree with everything everyone has said so far. The shave counts and only the shave.

I'll also say that perfectly mirror polished bevels does not automatically make for the greatest shave. In fact, I've found the opposite to be true. On occasions I've purposely spent a bunch of time on the 16k Shapton, then chrome ox on newspaper and plain newspaper, making for bevels that are as mirror as I think I can get even when viewed at 40x mag. The edges were not overhoned, and they were so sharp the HHT hairs flew in half even before I brought them to the edge ;); but.....the edges didn't last long and weren't the most comfortable shaves.

My theory is that even extremely fine bevel scratch patterns perpendicular to the edge act as micro stabilizer bars giving the edge itself some integrity. Perfectly smooth bevels creating an edge lack that kind of stability. DE blades, even the better ones I've viewed under magnification all have noticeable scratch patterns. If mirror polished bevels provided the optimal shave, I would think it would be automatable to acheive such bevels in production.

Chris L

I agree with the above - it's the shave that counts. But to address your question, if the 8k doesn't remove the 4k scratches, you will have to spend longer on the 8k or fit another stone in between 4k and 8k. An intermediate stone would be quicker. If you had the same problem sandpapering wood, you'd immediately realise that the jump in grit size was the problem. If it is a problem - like ChrisL says, some scoring may be desirable!

Regards,
Neil

I wasn't thinking about the magnification- rather why are they there,

first I suppose, how is it that you are sure they are from 4000?

I think if you are following the exact same path in the same plane, -and your hones are equally flat- that 4k should clear out rather quickly. I use shap_pro rather than norton, but at the basic level the principles are the same

Thanks for all the replies. Good to know that don't really need to worry about it too much. I will still try more time on the 8K stone and see if that makes much difference.

kevint: I'm pretty sure that the scratches are there from the 4k because when first going onto the 4k side from the bevel setter, the 4k takes out the previous scratches and leaves its own.

Steven

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Yea, exactly! :p

Or another way. Looking at an edge with 100 magnification makes for some long fruitless bevel polishing sessions.

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I definitely agree with this. The focus should be on how the razor shaves. Not on how the scratch pattern appears. BTW, I use a 30X and it tells me everything I need to know.:)

yeah guys, but he got the scope 'cause he could see them with the naked eye.

Nerobot I wasn't questioning your honing ability, but if the Norton is anywhere as good as the Shapton and your hones are at the same flat- they ("lots of lines") should not be there. Especially so since(as you said) there are no scratches left from the stone previous to 4000- which is why I asked if you are sure it's 4000 you are seeing and not from 1000 or some such, that you didn't get with 4k- with mostly 8000 grit polish those earliest lines really pop out and would be very slow to remove at 8000

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

I definitely agree with this. The focus should be on how the razor shaves. Not on how the scratch pattern appears. BTW, I use a 30X and it tells me everything I need to know.:)

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What exactly are you looking for under 30x?