Problem with a Norton 4K/8K combination water stone

Greetings everyone,

I have encountered a problem with my Norton 4K/8K combination water stone. After I got the stone, I successfully lapped it using abrasive paper and a granite surface plate. I have been storing the stone in a plastic Tupperware type container, submerged in distilled water. When in use, I periodically wet the stone with a spray bottle. The yellow 8K side works great, but I have had nothing but problems with the 4K side.

I have cleaned up/restored several old razors and, with each one I have had the same problem when sharpening with the 4K. As the razors pass over the stone it feels almost like there are very small pebbles under the blades. The blades lift up off of the stone's surface, and bump along. When I check the blades, I find scratches and small chips along the razors' edge. If I run my fingers over the hones, I can feel the "pebbles" rolling. I can also see lengthwise scratches on the stone's surface that correspond to the "pebbles" I feel. I have come to the conclusion that these "pebbles" are actually chips crumbling off the surface of the stone and getting in my way.

My question for you guys is; is there something that I am doing to cause this problem, or is it possible that I have a defective stone? Has anyone else encounter the same thing? Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, on my latest restoration the 4K put several small chips in the edge of a J.R. Torrey. (I am positive the chips weren't there when I started.) I switched to a superfine diamond hone and removed the chips, then skipped the 4K and spent a while on the 8K. I then went to a Spyderco ultra fine, then a green chromium oxided balsa strop, then a chromium oxided strop, and then a plain strop. That blade is now the sharpest razor I own (even sharper than one I had professionally sharpened), so I my honing technique can't be totally fubar.

I had the same problem. The Norton stones are very porous and grit from the abrasive paper is now embedded in the stone. I have lapped several other stones with abrasive paper (coticules, Chinese 12K, Belgian Blue and barber hones) without problems but the Nortons don't tolerate it. The solution to my problem was to lap it on a Norton flattening stone. Other people use diamond hones, such as the DMT 8C. Since I started lapping on the Norton flattening stone I haven't had any problems.

What kind of abrasive paper did you use to lap it exactly? What grit, but more importantly, what type of paper? All purpose sandpaper? Wet Dry sand paper?

Chris L

i think Chimensch said exact problem and how to fix it.Now this is why i hate synthetic hones.you need to clean it up every other time when you use it before storing it.About sharpness of the blade you can get blade very very sharp with overhoning becarefull.

I lap my Norton under running water and sometimes I still get grit stuck to the stone.

That DMT D8C continuous plate is your best bet. It will last forever and can be used for other purposes. :gl:

My Norton 4/8 had a very granular surface on the 4K side when it was new. Using it felt very much like what you are describing. To solve the problem I kept lapping the stone until it felt smooth when I ran my hand over it. In the end I had to lap off about 1/8th of an inch to get a surface that was satisfactory. It works fine now.

Lynn told me that he has done the same thing with a couple of his recent Nortons, so this is not a totally isolated problem.

i think it's just 4k stones period. the stone is just porous enough to catch the shavings as you're sharpening the blade. a friend of mine suggested running it across a flattening stone to get down past the flecks. haven't tried it yet though.:shrug:

You guys are great! I was getting ready to call Norton and complain, but now I find that this is a known problem, with a fairly easy fix. The collective knowledge here is really amazing. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ations/wow.gif

I used a variety of Norton abrasive papers when lapping the 4K, then finished with 600 grit Rhynowet A/O paper. I have DMT and Eze-Lap diamond bench stones, so I'll try resurfacing the 4K with them. If that doesn't work, I'll try the Norton flattening stone.

Thanks again.

I always use wet/dry sandpaper with lots of water when lapping the Norton 4K. . When finished I then place the hone under running water and scrub it with either a brush or a nylon kitchen pad to remove any embedded grit.

Just before each honing session I refresh the surface ( lightly lap) with a 1000 grit wet/dry or hone. This removes any embedded swarf from the last honing session and brings fresh abrasive grains to the surface. It also keeps the hone flat for a longer period of time. This has made a major difference for me.

Just my $.02:)

Valuable information!

I just got my Norton 4K/8K and still sitting on the fence whether to get a DMT 8C or go with sandpaper and a flat plate. After reading many posts on this topic, it seems as if there are less headaches in the long run using the DMT 8C.

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Originally Posted by Fender57

Valuable information!

I just got my Norton 4K/8K and still sitting on the fence whether to get a DMT 8C or go with sandpaper and a flat plate. After reading many posts on this topic, it seems as if there are less headaches in the long run using the DMT 8C.

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Definately less headaches with DMT and you can use it for other tasks as well, like refreshing the stone quickly before honing, making slurry.