All natural japanese hones.

In a previous thread I asked about the possibility to get a full natural hone setup.With a bevel setter(1000/2000) a cutter( ca. 4000) a polisher(ca 8000) and a finisher ( >10000 )
The reason I asked that question is that I think it would be very interesting to have a natural set,and learn about the differenses to a synth. set of ex.shapton.
I think it was Bart who stated that you could manage this with two different colicules, and a bbw.
This is something that I would love to try out in the future but for now,my eyes are on natural japanese hones.I have been reading some regarding this hones lately, but its difficult to find any information.
I've been reading some on Old_schools web site.And some on japanese tools.Anyways, I will be purcasing a Nakayama(Or asagi? Don't really know the difference:shrug:) hone in the not so distant future.And now for my question: Do anyone know if you could build a set of natural japanes hones that would satisfy the criteria mentioned above?
And in case there would be stones with such different characteristics, what are they called?
I know that you can't nail the grit size of naturals,but would anyone have a slight clue?

Thanks Kristoffer.

Btw, wouldn't it be possible to cut the course ones into smaller pieces?

Oh, it's really not that hard to do. Waterstone | Wood working tool, Japanese wood working tool shop
You might write to dick-biz and see what they have.
There are quite a number of stones to choose from when you know what you are asking for. Or you could start with iyoto,binsui; two arado that are easy to find on ebay.

nakado- the middle stones. tsushima nagura would be approx 2000/3000 grit ; aoto , in the same range are considerably cheaper and easy to find.

There are many, many others. Except for the nagura I mentioned those are the ones I have- mostly because they are cheap- each cost me less than 40 US incl. shipping from Japan.

For low grit, medium grit practicality synthetics offer the most reliable, consistant grinding. But like you I think it's a cool thing to have.

happy hunting

I'm not one who really understands what "people" want, OS:cool:

I believe in another thread you said something about how you don't need a stepping stone from ~8000syn to kamisori stones you offer. It seems coarse medium and fine would do well. It is a place to start. You will not find a natural that works as quick and efficiently as a shapton 1000. Because we are always trying to erase the previous stone there is not much point in finessing. This is why coarse and middle stones are less popular. I really don't the that people that seek out these old rocks are thinking a thing about synthetics. In fact it's anti-synthetic, which boils down the reasons a lot of people shave this way to begin with.

Each tree is also unique and the wood can be vastly different within a single specimen, but we are still able to speak in general terms about the working qualities, and as long as we use the latin name to be sure of an exact species we can understand one another when we ascribe qualities of hard and soft, tight grain or whatever. I think these stones are kinda like that.
Obviously the one you get is the one you got. I am talking about stones that are 20 to 200usd. I have 9 stones now and a couple i'm not sure how to use other than as a polish stone for the finish they leave.


fwiw | DICK is the closest place to Kris I know of that sells nats, it's a place chock full of neat shtuff

Ahh I got cha.

One thing I learned from the guys on the japanese tool forum is the iyoto makes a great lapping stone for naturals.

I noticed that the slurry made with a diamond plate makes a good polishing paste, while the stone's scratches could be between 325 and 500_ish. I'm not sure really. I had some areas of tarnish on a Tornblom that looked like it was chipped chrome(?!) and used this stone to cut those scabs off... still polishing the faceted spine on finer stones

You can use little chips from any of these others mentioned as finger-stones to replace sandpapering as well.

There are plenty of uses and excuses to have a full spectrum.:D

Wow! Fantastic web sites! As a carpenter I was drooling at the tools to..
What setup would you recoment btw?
I got a bit hone overloaded, and I didn't seem to find any decent replacement for the ca.4000 grit segment.
Thanks to both of you!

Kris, you're a carpenter, cool. Me too- though now i am just a construction manager. What you are asking sounds like the number progression that OS worried over. It's not a number progression but a stone progression, the Aoto can usually handle it. I can't promise for all of them on the market . Some will be finer than others; harder or softer within their softish range. you can leave that and go right to 8000-ish, For now I use shinden suita which is probably a bit finer than 8

It takes way more knowledge and experience and access to stones than I can offer to get the perfect set for you in your hands. As I said the ones i have pointed out are the easy ones to find, and easy on the pocket book. You can also spend over 200usd on an aoto. Some naguras are just by nihonto polishers and range up into the thousands
So the first thing you may wish to decide is your budget.

A really good, really fine, really fast cutting finish stone is really going to cost you. I suggest getting that first as it is much more satisfying imo than working up on nats only to finish on some synthetic (if you have one already, sorry i forgot). oh yeah you have a "china12".


I hope to add a couple more stones to my collection this year with a nice suita at the top of the list.

How come you know so much about natural japanese hones? This is so cool!
OK, I'm thinking this order:

Amakusa ( for restoration )
Binsu
Aoto
Awaseto
Nakayama( have already talket to OS about this one, and specified what I want.I'm getting one to my 30th birthday:D)

As far as budget, I'm a little shocked of the fact that you can talk about money in this regards..

I guess I'm a bit shocked of my wife too.....:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KristofferBodvin

How come you know so much about natural japanese hones? This is so cool!
OK, I'm thinking this order:

Amakusa ( for restoration )
Binsu
Aoto
Awaseto
Nakayama( have already talket to OS about this one, and specified what I want.I'm getting one to my 30th birthday:D)

As far as budget, I'm a little shocked of the fact that you can talk about money in this regards..

I guess I'm a bit shocked of my wife too.....:(

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Awaseto is a nakayama or sho-honyama according to the d-b website.;) assuming they are accurate:) .... as I was suggesting when talking wood you need the scientific name. With stones you need the mine and strata to be accurate. Awaseto, Is that the same thing as awasedo ;probably so-
which is to say polishing stone

I got a little curious and jumped ahead on the Klaus Tornblom resto. (it wasn't in too bad shape anyway) It would not shave and during earlier work I lightly breadknifed the edge.

I started with aoto using just water at first (It will drink up some water) but the switched to heavy slurry. I use a multi-directional approach that varies from straight parallel edge to hone length, to perpendicular; with every stroke and combination of stroke inbetween(no rolling x needed on this one). then after it's shaving some arm hair. I ease up a bit and try to be real light and extra precise. total time spent around 13 minutes.

Off to the shave den and minimal beard prep. just some water on the face and 15 seconds of soak after lathering. The Tornblom shaved! But left some hair on my 2 day beard, especially around the "gotee" area. Overall not bad, but it did take some extra pressure to get the cutting done.

I wanted to know what the Nakayama Asagi would do, WWNAD as some say:). I lapped and slurried the stone with 1200 atoma plate and started in for about 10 minutes. Then back to the Den as the arm hair test was showing far greater ease cutting. It could really use another 5 or 10 minutes to peak the edge but I got a decent multi-directional second pass just lathering up and going after it.

I may have to quit saying these stones are slow. Swedish razors, as far as I know, do not have the reputation of being easy to sharpen either. I thought it'd be interesting or slightly so to at least some so take it for what's it worth - (an impressive example of what these stones can do);)

Fantastic, I really envy you...

Have you got several highend finishing hones ? And are they incase similar to the ones OS sells?
I figured out that I could get the whole set for about 350 dollars,minus the nakyama from OS.
So I will do as you suggested, and start from the top.And then build from there.:)

No not really high end. irregular, thin, small. Each has something about it that held the price down. the next suita i get will be rectangular and "full size" but I'm still unwilling to breach the 500$ mark.

I believe that's a good approach as you get the end experience first. The rest is just playing.