Coticule honers.

I am very excited by the fact that I soon will have a coticule and a bbw.I bet most of the experienced honers here have one or several of them.I guess the bbw would have the same use as my norton 4000, only with slurry.As for the coticule I am pondering about a few things.
I have the impression that a hard coticule with light slurry would practicaly do the same job as the norton 8000.And that it would give an even finer polish with plain water.I realise that you can get a good shave from the coticule after stropping.But for the members who are exp.in the use of coticules:
Will you shave right from the coticule, or will you finish with a finer hone or/and chrom.ox or similar?

Tanks Kristoffer.

I wouldn't try to think of the belgians in terms of nortons; they cut differently, & it's a different honing paradigm. With the Norton 4/8 you're doing pyramids, shaping the bevel with the 4k and polishing it with the 8k, and alternating between them so as not to remove more metal than necessary with the 4k and not to get a wire edge with the 8k.

With the Belgians, you've put your bevel on with something else – a DMT 1200 or the like. You also get it pretty damn sharp with that low-grit artifiical hone. Most of what you're doing with the Belgians is smoothing and refining, and you don't have to worry about removing too much metal or getting a wire-edge. About 50+ strokes on the blue w/slurry gets the 1200 scratches out and leaves you with a nice sharp edge to polish with the coticule. Some guys at this point go straight to the coticule with water; others use a light slurry on coticule first, then wash it off and polish with just water. Expect 50-100 laps on the coticule, depending on the qualities of your individual stone.

Chrome oxide afterwards is optional. My recommendation is to make sure you're getting a very sharp shaving edge off the stone; do a complete test shave. Then if you want a little extra oomph or smoothness, do 5-10 strokes on chrome oxide.

Personally, I've only really ever used mine after the Norton 8000. I know the coticules were used a lot by barbers in the old days for a lot of the heavier work on the razor also, but I just don't see the point these days when you have all of these synthetic hones out there. That's why I just use my nortons up to 8000, then go to the coticule.

I have gotten quite good shaves off of the coticule and going straight to the strop with no pastes. But, as they are natural stones, some finish better than others. I have a couple of coticules now, and one is definitely a better finisher than the other. I like the harder one for finishing, but it's a little slow cutting. Oh and I use water only, not a slurry for finishing.

If you can get a good shave off of the 8k Norton, you can get an even better shave off of the right coticule (which is even finer than an 8k when used with just water).

I don't have much to add to either of the well thought out posts above... but here goes anyhow!

Once you know how the stone responds, you should be able to get a great shave straight from the stone. Getting to know the stone can be a bit uncomfortable at times, and that's where the other stuff comes in.

In the interests of full disclosure, I don't shave off my coticules regularly though. Not because I don't like the edge, I just have a finer natural stone I can't resist using, even if I don't really need it. Ahem.:o

I quite enjoy shaving right off the hone. It's fun to spend a few days trying to eek a little more performance with another 10-20 laps per shave. The face gives more data on what a stone hones like more than any left armhair or pine board ever could so i use the shave test on all my nats

I'm still reading a lot on honing and am very new, but as far as I know a coticule +slurry is not meant for polishing rather then for bevel setting, or rougher work. Bart for example turned my dull razor in a sharp razor on nothing but a coticule + slurry.

I've pretty much retired my Norton 4/8 in favor of my coticules. I love the feel and feedback during honing. I got a screaming sharp edge on a dovo after doing the controversial breadknife technique removing a nick. I love turning them onto High with heavy slurry for rough work. It is amazing what this fine hone can really do. It would be my only hone of choice if I could only have one rock.
MikeB

I am still experimenting with my coticules. I have a number of them with one natural being my favorite. I agree with joke1176 that it is a process of getting to know your hones. I have used my coticules with water only and then after reading Bart's articles with slurry and then thinning it out by adding water. I usually start with the blue and then finish on the yellow. I have tried setting bevels with the cotcule with slurry but find it too slow and since I have a 1200 DMT and Shapton and Norton 1k I go with them depending on the razor.

One of the problems with having so many hones is that it takes a long time to get to know them. OTOH, I also agree with thebigspendur that some razors respond better to some hones then to others and it is nice to have the choices and to experiment. Having fun with the sport of honing and shaving.

I have had great shaves with a razor honed and finished on a coticule. I have sometimes gone to an Escher blue/green afterwards and I think that gave it a slightly finer edge. I don't go to chrom ox or paste unless my first pass is harsh and then before the second pass I will use one or the other. Infrequently at this stage of the game.

i have had my couticle for a month now and must say they are different hones than the synthetics, every razor reacts differently to a couticle some dont like it at all like my stainless wacker had to use a barber hone on it then finish it on my couticle with 25 laps for that smooth shave, chrmo has been more of a hassle for me than a help so i dont use it anymore as i tend to overdo everything, if i had it to do all over again id go with several couticles at least 3 in various stages of hardness, dont think ill ever give up my old barbers hone my 70 plus barber gave it to me with a straight to use

I'm trying to shave straight off the coticule -- my aim is to be able to use BBW/coticule combo and nothing else. I might not get there, but it's fun trying.

I've managed to eliminate the pastes by using coticule with water only, but a lot of the success is highly dependent on a very steady and light honing technique, and careful monitoring of when to move from BBW to coticule. But certainly with my beard, I can get shave ready edges from bbw/coticule technique.

When I'm happy with consistent results, I'm going to try giving up bevel setting with my DMT and using coticule with slurry. The final objective is to go coticule-->bbw-->coticule.

If I ever become satisfied with that progression, I'm gonna blow a huge load of cash on a great coticule/bbw natural combo. And then I'll have the one stone and strop. Old school.

I'm an official Coticule honer but not yet a very successfull one... my successrate is 33.33%...

But I'm still learning and enjoying the experience..

Maarten

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Originally Posted by majurey

I'm trying to shave straight off the coticule -- my aim is to be able to use BBW/coticule combo and nothing else. I might not get there, but it's fun trying.

I've managed to eliminate the pastes by using coticule with water only, but a lot of the success is highly dependent on a very steady and light honing technique, and careful monitoring of when to move from BBW to coticule. But certainly with my beard, I can get shave ready edges from bbw/coticule technique.

When I'm happy with consistent results, I'm going to try giving up bevel setting with my DMT and using coticule with slurry. The final objective is to go coticule-->bbw-->coticule.

If I ever become satisfied with that progression, I'm gonna blow a huge load of cash on a great coticule/bbw natural combo. And then I'll have the one stone and strop. Old school.

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Very cool. I was going to do that a couple weeks ago, when the prices of coticules jumped 50% over night. I was looking at Howard's site before I went to bed, had a couple of nice stones picked out, got up the next morning to find that the prices went up big. This was verified by Adrennes online store, too.

I'm still learning my new Shapton lineup, but I gotta admit, I'm still very curious about the coticule/BBW combo. Everytime I read one of Bart's posts on them, I end up looking at coticules/bbw's at various online vendors.

[QUOTE=JimmyHAD;317496]I
One of the problems with having so many hones is that it takes a long time to get to know them. OTOH,

I seem to spend all my time on the coticules. I've had an antique escher for several years and have not even tried it yet. Go figure.
MikeB

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Originally Posted by sdsquarepoint

I've had an antique escher for several years and have not even tried it yet. Go figure.

MikeB

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You have an antique escher that you haven't yet tried out??? I'll tell you what, since it's obviously useless to you, I'll take it off your hands, free of charge. You know what, since you're such a nice guy, I'll even pay the shipping for you. Deal?

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

The prices of coticules jumped 50% over night. I was looking at Howard's site before I went to bed, had a couple of nice stones picked out, got up the next morning to find that the prices went up big. This was verified by Adrennes online store, too.

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That was very disappointing, but that's business I guess. I had my eye on a new coticule when prices were good, but x-mas/debts got in the way. Oh well..................

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Originally Posted by StraightRazorDave

You have an antique escher that you haven't yet tried out??? I'll tell you what, since it's obviously useless to you, I'll take it off your hands, free of charge. You know what, since you're such a nice guy, I'll even pay the shipping for you. Deal?

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I'll keep you in mind. I suffer from HAD and cannot let it go without rehab treatment.
MikeB

[quote=sdsquarepoint;317989]

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I seem to spend all my time on the coticules. I've had an antique escher for several years and have not even tried it yet. Go figure. MikeB

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:OTMike, give that Escher a go as a finisher after your coticule. Just use water. Compare the edge with what the coticule alone leaves. I am not sure if it is my imagination but I think I get a smoother shave. With Slurry Eschers are great for sharpening IME. I would'nt set bevels with one but they are great stones.

[quote=sdsquarepoint;317989]

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I
One of the problems with having so many hones is that it takes a long time to get to know them. OTOH,

I seem to spend all my time on the coticules. I've had an antique escher for several years and have not even tried it yet. Go figure.
MikeB

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MikeB, you're cheating yourself, put it to work! Beside it'll give you more time in your honing therapy.;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Very cool. I was going to do that a couple weeks ago, when the prices of coticules jumped 50% over night. I was looking at Howard's site before I went to bed, had a couple of nice stones picked out, got up the next morning to find that the prices went up big. This was verified by Adrennes online store, too.
...

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I did the same thing. Went back to order a 2" x 6" and found the prices up by more than 50%. Didn't order. I guess I'm not all that curious yet.

[QUOTE=JimmyHAD;318092]

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Originally Posted by sdsquarepoint

:OTMike, give that Escher a go as a finisher after your coticule. Just use water. Compare the edge with what the coticule alone leaves. I am not sure if it is my imagination but I think I get a smoother shave. With Slurry Eschers are great for sharpening IME. I would'nt set bevels with one but they are great stones.

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I think I better try that! Otherwise I'll be on the spot for Straight Razor Dave to take the Escher off my hands! I cant let that happen.! I'll have separation anxiety!

MikeB