Any experiences? Would you recommend this?
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Any experiences? Would you recommend this?
I don't have any experience with the chinese 12k...but I don't know if it would be any improvement off of the coticule. From what I've read, the chinese stone is VERY slow, so I don't know if you'd just be wasting your time after the coticule. Although most coticules are rated at about 8000, when used with just water they perform like a higher grit stone, so probably quite comparable to the chinese 12k.
Do you currently have a coticule and are considering getting a chinese 12k stone?
I know JoeD has both a coticule and a 12k, and I seem to remember him saying that he was able to get better edges off the 12k. Since I don't really remember, I sent JoeD a pm with a link to this thread. Hopefully he will enlighten us... or at least share his results ;-p
They are all natural stones, will the Chinese 12k put a better edge than the yellow coticule? It depends on the stones. In my case yes, I feel the edge off of my Chinese 12k suits my face better than the coticules that I own.
I think the Chinese stone is maligned for lack of feed back and being a slow cutter. I like the speed and feel of a freshly lapped Chinese 12k. I lap it every time I use it.
Charlie
the chineese 12k hone puts on an amazingly smooth scratch pattern from some of what ive read and seen on tim zowadas site its hard to say what hone will give you the beter shaving edge since the naturals vary in consistancy some are better than others and how your razor likes the hone has a lot to do with it too, some razors are finicky
I disagree that the Chinese 12k is less than 12k grit, it's most definitely finer than the Japanese 12k waterstone that I've used, so if anything it's more, not less, than 12k.
I'm assuming you are referring to Old_School's post. Keep in mind, he noted that, as with all natural stones, the grit will vary. While 12K may be an average or approximate value, some may be higher or lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by cotdt
Knowing that many members have lower values, combined with information about where they got those particular stones may reveal trends about certain stocks/shipments, so I'd say that is just a helpful piece of information rather than a denial that there are high "12K Chinese" stones out there.
The real question is if it gives you an edge that you prefer. I tried a C12K after a coticule and it required ~100 laps to make a noticeable change in the feel of the edge using the TPT.
Please note that after the first 25 laps you will think that the edge is not as sharp as it was before. Just continue honing and checking every 25 laps. Stop when you notice a change.
They are both natural stones, as most have pointed out. Sure, the chinese varies - so do coticules, so a soft easy slurry-maker coticule is not going to be "...comparable to ..." to a decent chinese stone as regards grit-rating (whatever that's worth).
I have a couple of coticules and I have had nearly a dozen chinese stones which I have lapped and made rubbing stones for for other people. I have used all these chinese stones, and they haven't varied much in my experience. I haven't found them to be particularly slow - with a good slurry 50 round laps gives me something I can see and feel a difference in, and I use 50 - 100 round laps for most finishing stones, so it's no big deal for me to do the same with the chinese stone.
Note that I say in my experience - other people who have experience of both stones may have formed a different opinion, those who only conjecture - conjecture. I'm not a great fan of conjecture or opinions about the effectiveness of something never experienced!
To sum it up, I haven't noticed an adverse effect at all. All the chinese stones I have had experience of polish more than the two coticules I have had experience of - ie: they refine the edge a bit more - for me. My chinese stones haven't been that significantly slower than any other polishing stone.
Whether you prefer the edge of one over the other stone, or the effect produced by the two is a matter of personal choice - something you have to experience for yourself.
Regards,
Neil
Thanks all. Being a newbie, I am still experimenting a lot with my results. At the moment I have an edge I'm not sure what to feel about, after a few shaves and knowing my edge, I'll try the chinese and see if it makes shaving better.
Should I use it with slurry? If so, how consistent?
Using it with a creamy slurry considerably shortens the number of laps needed. As you go you can thin the slurry with water until it becomes very thin. Don't use anything of a lesser grit to form the slurry. A bit cut off the end of the same stone is ideal, but a fine small diamond plate is great.
Regards,
Neil.
I am getting better shaves off the 8k Shapton than off the 12k Chinese... :shrug: The Shapton polishes edges to mirrors, the Chinese produces satin surfaces. I'll have a coticule/bbw stone in my greedy hands soon, I can't wait to compare it to the Chinese.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
I bought my Chinese stone from the Woodcraft website in early December 08.
I go from BBW to cot. to C12K. I enjoy the edges it gives. I have not yet tried going straight off the cot. I feel that if what I'm doing is working, there is no reason to try something else. I am not a believer in the idea that "if it ain't broke, break it and fix it better"
That is odd, Sparq - the chinese stone I am using at the moment gives exceptional mirror edges. It is very hard, dark slate-grey in colour with a few darker veins in it, and came from an ebay seller in Poland. Having said that, I have used lighter coloured ones with a homogeneous surface to equally good effect. I think they are exceptionally good value for money.
Like holli4pirating says, it would be helpful to know where the poor-performing stones are being bought.
Regards,
Neil.
I have had a Chinese 12k for about two months now and did a small amount of experimentation on carbon steel and stainless steel. The stone works best for carbon steel, best practice for stainless is here: http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...e-friodur.html
My progression for carbon blades is:
1) set bevel on 1200 Chinese
2) refine bevel on 4k Norton
3) polish on 8k norton
4) polish on coticule water only
5) polish on Chinese 12k water only ~ 100 laps
I am highly impressed with the results off the Chinese hone. CarrieM performs the final test on the blades and thinks they are scary sharp. :D Carrie does not want to run her straights over the Chinese due to her observations of my results. :chop:
I like to play with the HHT when I finish as just a game and not a test for shave ability. :D The hairs are popping much further away from my fingers after the Chinese hone. My shaves are much smoother using straights honed on the 12k.
My tests are not scientific, I am not sure of the grit on the Chinese hones other than what I ordered and what the box stated. I am not saying that this method is better than any other members here are using. I'm just saying that for the price I payed for the Chinese I am very satisfied with the results and push and pull put all of my carbon steel razors over this hone prior to their next service call. :nj
Thanks for bring this thread to my attention Holli. :tu
As RandyDance noted, for some reason edges feel duller after a few laps on the Chinese 12k, then improves. This made me give up on using it for a while.
For you guys that aren't getting the mirror finishes off of the Chinese 12k, are you using slurry? It seems like 50 laps with slurry, then 50 laps without has consistently given me great results off the 12k regardless of what kind of blade it is.
So far, the Chinese 12k is giving my Shapton 16k a run for it's money, but I'm sure that's just user error... time will tell.
Edit: When I do the laps on the 12k as described above, I can no longer see any scratch marks at all on the edge of a razor using my cheapo 100 X Radio Shack microscope.
I've tried almost everything with the C12K but without much success. It leaves my blades more scratched than the Shapton (naked eye, 10x magnifier, 100x radio shack microscope). Perhaps I am very lucky and my Shapton is one of the better ones? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPizza
LoL, that's gotta be it! Your shapton came from a better piece of ceramic boulder than mine did! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sparq
I have a coticle and a Chinese 12k and a Spyderco UF, they all take time to learn how to get the best results out of them, but isen't that what we love?
The C12k and UF are great stones and are worth getting for anyone starting out in straights, IMO.
:OTI just have to say: reading these threads really make my hands tingle.I want to hone! And I want to do it for hours! This is the only hobby I ever had that I find much more interesting a year after, than when I started.I haven't read abou a singel hone that I don't want to own.....
Thank you all!
Kristoffer.
I use the CH12K after coticules. First with a slurry, then water, then dry. I get mirror finish edges that shave really well. Shaves so well that I e-bayed off my Escher to someone who probably thought that the extra $200 would make their razor sharper.
If you can get ahold of Bart, he might have some good advice for you. I think he has done quite a bit of experimenting with coticles and I think he had his sights set on the use of a coticle/chinese12k honing combination.
That's funny...and wise too. =)Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
Me
Is there not a 12 step program for the advanced stages of HAD yet???:rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by KristofferBodvin