Frown is gone, now what ? :-D

Hey guys,

I've been working on that frowning razor as a little practice project. Thanks to RandyDance I totally got rid of the frown by using sandpaper (!). It took quite a while, but what a joy to see that frown disappear!

Now obviously, the razor is extremely blunt, and I'm wondering what to do. The highest grit sandpaper I can find is 600, the lowest grid stone I have is a coticule with slurry. I'm wondering if setting a bevel with a coticule + slurry will work within lets say 12 hours, or if I should spend those 12 hours looking for sand paper :p Anyhow, just wanted to give an update on that razor, the frown is gone, go sandpaper go!

They sell 1000 and 2000 grid paper for automotive (painting) use. Drop by your local body shop if they can spare a piece or 2 or check out ebay.

i was going to post a thread on i'm not sure what is a frown?

You can get the wet and dry paper at any automotive parts retailer and most hardware stores, I think even Walmart has it. Find a way to keep the paper flat, like fixed to a 2x4, tape the spine of the razor and set your bevel. once the bevel has been established continue on to the coticule.

How did you remove the frown, Jan? Have you been honing edge down, to straighten out the edge, or have you been honing in the regular fashion with emphasis on toe and heel to bring them in line with the low middle part?

In the former case, you need to (partially) rebuild te cutting bevel, for which you may drop down to 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper (Tape the spine to protect it form excessive wear).
When done on the 400 grit, go to the 600 grit. After that, remove the tape, raise a milky slurry on your Coticule and hone with light pressure (X-stroke) till you can shave armhair along the entire edge.
At that point the bevel is set. Refine the edge on a Belgian Blue (or some other hone suitable for that job) and finish on your Coticule with water.

About bevel-setting:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...y_and_practice
About honing:
A simple honing method with DMT-E , Belgian Blue Whetstone and Coticule - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Veel plezier!:)

Bart.

Spend your time looking for sandpaper. Start at 320 grit or so, work up to 1000-2000 grit. Then go to the coticule with slurry.


Hope this helps,:)

Small update again:

Further honed it on the 600 grit paper, but quite wet. Went through two sheets of that paper as it got used up extremely fast (ridiculous almost) and I used no pressure.

Anyhow, there was now what looked like a bevel. I'm not talking sticking/sharp or anything, but you could cut a steak or something with it I guess.

Looking to the reflections of the light, you could see it was reflecting unevenly, so I prepared for some hours on the coticule with slurry :-)

After about 15 minutes, the razor started to respond to TPT in the middle and a little at the heel. The tip however seems to be forged out of some hard #@& material, can't seem to get that to respond so well. I did some circles at the start, then moved to regular X strokes.

Looking forward to honing some more this evening.

Oh yes, when you look at the edge you can really see an almost mirror-like reflection of the light on it, so am quite happy!

If you removed the frown with the "breadknifing" method, (which is a good approach, imo) then the tip and heel will need the most work (since it was a frown, you removed the least part of the bevel in the middle and more at both ends of the edge). If you don't complete a new bevel on a lower grit, you are going to need A LOT of honing on the coticule with slurry.
I have never used sand paper myself, for honing, but I'm pretty sure it makes a lot of difference whether you use dedicated sandpaper for metal or for wood. Going as fast, as you experienced, through a sheet of sandpaper, suggests that you are using sandpaper for wood only. I'm not sure.

If you decide to try to finish the job on your Coticule with slurry, I advice to add 3 layers of tape to the spine. Let the glue on the tape settle for 15 minutes, otherwise it will come off pretty quickly. Then hone with some pressure, 20 diagonal back and forth motions on one side of the blade. (Count the strokes). Flip the blade and copy those 20 strokes, same pressure, on the other side. Flip again and repeat. Check with the Thumb Nail Test (TNT) regularly. No need to so X-strokes, till the TNT starts to catch along the entire edge. Always pay equal attention to the entire edge, also the parts that are already responding well to the TNT.
At the end, remove the tape, back off on the pressure and start doing regular X's till the razors shaves arm hair. At that point bevel formation is finished...

Bart.

Thanks Bart for the explanation!

The sandpaper I used was not for wood, it was for metal indeed. Taking out the frown took a long time though, don't get me wrong, I just expected it to take a day, and it only took a few hours :-)

Wet armhair gets shaved for the moment, except at the tip still, but dry hair does not get cut at all and I'm sure the blade is far from being sharp. I'll do the strokes you suggest tomorrow evening. Thanks again for the info!

By the way, when you say back and forth strokes... are we talking about those little circles you showed me (which I have used, but not too much) or do you really mean 'back and forth' as in across the entire length of the hone? Kinda like how Mastro Livi does that on one of the videos where he tortures the razor on a hone?

What the heck... I couldn't wait to try this out so I went to hone real quickly with those strokes I think I did them correctly at least. I do a TPT and when I get to the middle I just sliced my finger, ouch! it's ok I still have my thumb, but damn I was not expecting such fast results. Anyhow, the tip is getting some life aswell, which is just wonderful! It's definately not 'sucking' yet when doing a TPT but it's definately doing something already. Should I switch to X strokes now or continue with these back and forth ones untill it' clearly sucking/stucking to the finger?

Thanks!!

Back and forth, Livi-style, circling motions, ... It does not matter. These are all directed to speeding up the process. Just try to be consistent along the entire edge and make sure all parts receive equal attention. Also the parts that are already keen.
It's sounds to me that you have a pretty fast Coticule.:tu

There's one general rule in bevel formation: the more you approach completion, the slower the process will appear. That's because you can't complete the bevel on the dull parts without removing steel from the keen parts. (Otherwise you would be reintroducing the frown or some other edge deviation).
As soon as the very last part of the edge starts to show a promising evolution, it's time to remove the tape an start doing regular X-strokes. Do plenty, because you still need to correct the slight off-angle caused by the tape.
The razor should also shave dry arm hair at that point.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Ok so I did what you said Bart, almost to the letter, only I think a lot more passes.

I went from the coticule + slurry to a diluted slurry by slowly adding water.

Then I went to the BBW with slurry. Now I want some confirmation here: I got my BBW (and coticule) from Ardennes Coticule (great service might I add) and I received a slurry stone with my stones. However I don't think the blue part of my slurry stone is BBW, but just slate or whatever. I mailed A.C. and Rob informed me I can just use the coticule side of the slurry stone to make a slurry on my BBW. Is this correct? I did this, but I'm not quite convinced. Doesn't this mix coticule 'grenades' with BBW 'grenades' ?

Anyhow, I continued the further honing as Bart describes in the Wiki.

Then, my razor passed the TPT test, but it does not stick so much as the one Bart honed for sure. The razor does not pass the HHT, it kinda 'scrapes' the hair or plays a little violin with it, but does nothing more. It does shave a lot of arm hair :P

I decided to give it a shave test. To my absolute amazement, it shaved like a dream! It was such a 'soft' edge, I can't explain it. I was expecting my hair to simply remain, but it's gone!

The razor is much heavier then my 'real' one which makes it in my opinion a much more comfortable razor. The blade is a little bigger but the overal shape remains the same, but the weight is a big difference, I truly enjoy this.

Now, as a conclusion, I'm pretty sure the razor could be sharper. But the thing is, should I then go back to the coticule +slurry and do the whole thing over again? I don't mind at all, but I just want to make sure. Or should I do the BBW-Coticule +water thing some more?

Thank you for a lot of helpful information everyone and Bart for the lesson! When I'm completely satisfied with how this thing shaves, I'll give a good review of the entire process.

EDIT: I went out and started all over again, the razor is overall sharper, but the tip just won't get as sharp s the rest of the razor, what should I do?

Jan,

I bet that razor has a slight backwards curve near the toe. Many razors have that. Not a genuine smiling edge, but just the toe recessing a bit. If I'm correct with that assumption, then go to the Wiki. Look up "strokes for honing a razor" and examin the "Rolling X-stroke". Translate that knowledge for your "smiling" toe.

On the Blue slurry issue: I think it's better not to use a Coticule for raising slurry on a Blue. The edge will likely max out at a sharper level with pure blue slurry than with mixed slurry. Use some of that 600 grit wet and dry paper. Don't use a worn out piece of sand paper, 'cause that might loose some particles in the slurry, which is not good of course. Don't make the slurry on the Blue too dense.

If you think you can get the razor keener yet, there's no need to go back to the Coticule with slurry. Not if you're confident that the bevel is properly set, which is always the case if you started out dull and gpt the razor shaving without using a pasted strop. Just go back to the Blue with slurry. Slowly dilute the slurry while honing (over about 100 laps total). Try to use as little pressure as you can while still maintaining a good even stroke. Less pressure = more keenness. Finish on the Coticule with plain water again. Also low pressure.

Congratulations on your success.:tu

Bart.

Thanks for the added information Bart.

I do need to say though, the tip of the razor is not shaving the sideburns well enough. Should I not fix this on coticule + slurry? Perhaps the bevel didn't quite form well enough yet there?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jantjeuh

Thanks for the added information Bart.

I do need to say though, the tip of the razor is not shaving the sideburns well enough. Should I not fix this on coticule + slurry? Perhaps the bevel didn't quite form well enough yet there?

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That, or the slight curving toe (=tip). I can't judge that from here. Maybe a picture is on order.
If the toe shaves, albeit not as good as the rest, then I'd say that the bevel is complete and there really is no reason to go back to the slurry stage on the Coticule. (I can see how much you want to go back to that pleasant honing on slurry sensation:D, but it really doesn't serve a purpose, in that case.) If the toe hardly shaves at all, then you might be right that more bevel-setting work on the Coticule with slurry is in order. It's your call.

Best regards,
Bart.