Which stones for the kitchen knives?

Now that I have a D8E (1200) and shapton 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k and have successfully honed a couple of razors I figured I'd try to make my kitchen knives serviceable... They aren't knicked up but they're not much sharper than the butter knives. Years of the family cutting things on ceramic plates and stuff. A few decent Henckels 5 stars and some Carvel Hall molybdenum steel knives (don't know about these but I suspect they're what you'd find at K-mart? haha, they do have "JAPAN" stamped on the tang).

I'm not going to be on Top Chef any time soon so I'm only looking to make them passable. Right now you can cut an onion but wouldn't have a chance on a tomato.

I'm thinking exagerated X stroke to cover the whole blade with a bit of a "J" at the bottom to catch the tip. I read 20* but I figure I'll just try to match the existing bevel by painting the edge first and finding the angle that way.

My question is what stones? I'm guessing the D8E and finish on the 2K?

If they haven't been sharpened in years, you'll need something coarser, to restore the cutting bevel first.

Normally you just hone one side, with back and forth motions, following the curve of the blade, till a bur folds over at the opposite side. This can be easily felt with the fingernail: try plucking the expected bur at if it was a string, if it's there, you'll feel your nail skipping over it.
At that point, turn over the knife and hone the other side till that bur is gone and a new bur folds over at the other side. Now proceed to the next (finer) hone, and repeat. It won't take long this time. Work all the way up to 1K or 2K (I finish on a Coticule with slurry myself).
The result is very much defined by your ability to keep the honing angle constant. So you need to focus on that real hard. I usually put the knife at 90° on the hone, divide that in half and once again, to find 22.5°, which is close enough for me.
Finish with two very precise strokes per side under a slightly higher angle (about 35°) on your 4K. (this will create a very small micro-edge: sharp, smooth and sturdy).

Good luck,
Bart.

There's an excellent tutorial on egullet here

It's written by Chad Ward, who has a recent book on knives and knife sharpening.

As Bart said, you'll need something coarser than a 1200 to set the bevels on older or neglected knives -- at least to save a lot of time. I have shapton GSs, and progress from 500 to 8k, and then strop. Again, as Bart said, the most important thing is to maintain the same angle throughout the stroke, which can be a bit tricky by hand as when you get to the end of chef's knives. It's not hard to figure out a 22.5 degree angle: start with a 90 degree angle, halve that to 45, and halve again to get the bevel angle most common to western knives.

There are a couple of tricks to keep the angle: some folks use a binder clip on the spine of the knife; but because that can change depending on the width of the knife (from edge to spine, thus a different angle for a wider knife), when I teach folks to sharpen, I have people figure out the angle they want using the 90-45-22.5 method, and setting a stack of pennies at that height on one side of the stone at that height as a reminder.

Hope some of this helps,

cass

I had been wondering about knife sharpening myself lately. But one thing I cannot figure out is how the stroke is directed, meaning, do you sharpen a knife with a stropping motion or a honing motion like on a stright razor? This puzzles me because I've seen many different ways of doing this and I can't figure out the metter way...

By the way, Bart, your post was very useful. Thanks!

Even kitchen knives need a bevel. A good place to start would be the DMT's. I refurbished mine starting with the DMT D8C then the D8F. I then did the Shapton 500, 1000 and lastly the 2000. I don't think a Kitchen knife needs more than the 2K but maybe the fillet would improve with the 4K. I say use what you have but it is important to get the bevel first. I use 2 hands to sharpen.

bj

bj

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fpessanha

I had been wondering about knife sharpening myself lately. But one thing I cannot figure out is how the stroke is directed, meaning, do you sharpen a knife with a stropping motion or a honing motion like on a stright razor?

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Honing by hand on flat hones, it really does not matter much. People generally hone with back and forth motions or circling motions. Only for creating an very fine secondary bevel upon finishing the honing job, I go with edge leading strokes only.

On spinning water stones, such as a Tormek machine, it's better and quicker to hone into the edge. When you hone away from the edge on such devices, the direction of the rotating wheel pulls the pressure, that you apply on the knife, away from the edge, hence it takes longer. The edge will be a bit weaker as well.

Hope this clarifies it a bit.
Bart

Holy cow guys. Start clicking the thanks button under cassady's post, because Chad Ward's post on Egullet is THE quintessential intro to knife maintenance and sharpening. Great intro to the theory of sharpening. Once you understand the reasons and purposes, the techniques make much more sense - just like with straight razor honing and stropping.

Shaptons are great for kitchen knives. Here is a video by cdawg of knifeforums.com

YouTube - Sharpening the Mizuno Tanrenjo Wa-Gyuto

he has a unique style, but very effective and easy IMHO.

But my BEST piece of advice is this: Don't ask about knife sharpening advice on a straight razor forum. Ask about it on a kitchen knife forum.

Here are some great knife forums to get you started. You'll get the best advice on the net about sharpening kitchen knives.

Fred's Cutlery Forum - Foodie Forums

In the Kitchen (Topic list) - Knifeforums.com - Intelligent Discussion for the Knife Enthusiast - Powered by FusionBB

I'm partial to knifeforums, but lots of the same guys head over to Foodie Forums too.

Tell them that you know henckels knives suck no matter what the chick at Williams Sonoma says, but that's what you've got for now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fpessanha

I had been wondering about knife sharpening myself lately. But one thing I cannot figure out is how the stroke is directed, meaning, do you sharpen a knife with a stropping motion or a honing motion like on a stright razor?!

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There are many ways to do it, but I generally swipe from heel to tip -- like you're trying to shave off a thin slice from the hone. This can be a bit more tricky than the back and forth method, because you have to change the angle(twisting the knife) slightly to maintain the angle you want.

And a big +1 to Bart's recommendation to having a double bevel. It's a great way to keep the edge longer.

cass