Do some razors not like linen?

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02-11-2009, 03:26 PM
singlewedge

Do some razors not like linen?

Having read the Wiki and multitudes of other posts on the subject, I present to you the dead horse.

I sharpen my razor thusly:

30 laps X style 1k (Global Ceramic Wet)
20 laps X style 2.5k (Silicon Carbide paper)
15 laps X Style 5k (Arkansas)
5-7 laps X style 12k (Chinese Wet)
Linen Chrom Ox 10-20 laps
Leather 25-30 laps

This is becoming my norm but I have found that my Dovo, which is the only one I have, seems to be throwing fits on the linen. I did it last night because I was not happy with the edge and the blade went from smooth off the 12k to ragged according to HHT and my face. I had to start over and this time I skipped the linen and went str8 to the leather. Worked much better and had a great shave this morning.

I am now confused!:thinking:
02-11-2009, 03:43 PM
FloorPizza

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlewedge

Having read the Wiki and multitudes of other posts on the subject, I present to you the dead horse.

I sharpen my razor thusly:

30 laps X style 1k (Global Ceramic Wet)
20 laps X style 2.5k (Silicon Carbide paper)
15 laps X Style 5k (Arkansas)
5-7 laps X style 12k (Chinese Wet)
Linen Chrom Ox 10-20 laps
Leather 25-30 laps

This is becoming my norm but I have found that my Dovo, which is the only one I have, seems to be throwing fits on the linen. I did it last night because I was not happy with the edge and the blade went from smooth off the 12k to ragged according to HHT and my face. I had to start over and this time I skipped the linen and went str8 to the leather. Worked much better and had a great shave this morning.

I am now confused!:thinking:

I don't have much experience with chrome ox on linen (none, actually), but I can tell ya something about your Chinese 12k... it's a very, very slow cutter. When I use it, I do 50 laps with slurry, then 50 laps without. Yeah, it's *that* slow. I really doubt that anything less than 50 will do a thing.

Also, instead of a set number of laps on each stone, you should use various sharpness tests to determine when to move on to the next grit. Personally, I only use 1k (or more coarse) if I'm going to set a bevel. *Not* for just touching up an edge. IMO, the most coarse you should go for just sharpening (not bevel setting) is 4k.

Try this:

Use a black permanent marker along the entire edge. Do a few laps on your 5k hone. Check where the marker is removed. If it is at the *very* edge of the blade, you are good to go, and really don't need to go to anything more coarse than your 5k. If, on the other hand, the marker is removed *behind* the edge, then you need to do a full bevel reset, and need to go to the 1k until the new bevel is completely set, and the blade passes the TNT and a crude HHT.

Assuming that the marker test was passed, do laps on your 5k until you are getting a very positive HHT, and arm hair should be shaved smoothly at skin level. No hops, skipping, or jumping. It should also pass the TPT at this point. In your sharpening setup, remember that the 5k level is where you are really developing the final *sharpness* of your blade. Everything that comes after your 5k is developing the final *smoothness* of your blade. Coming off of this stone is where you want your blade to be not just sharp, but damn sharp, cause you aren't going to see much, if any, increase in total sharpness after this point. Jumping from a 5k to a 12k is a huge jump. Normally, it's only recommended that you double (at max) grits in one jump. You might want to consider an 8k stone to add to your setup. Following your 5k stone, it will add sharpness and smoothness, and is a great step before the Chinese 12k.

I would then move to the Chinese 12k, and do laps until the microscope reveals that all the scratch marks from the 5k stone are removed. As mentioned, this will take a long time.

At this point, you could either move straight to leather, or do some laps on your linen first. Personally, I use unpasted linen, but I do use a pasted paddle strop in various diamond and chrome ox sizes.
02-11-2009, 03:57 PM
dylandog

I agree with FP that 5-7 laps sounds waaaay too few to be effective on the Chinese. I'd say the same thing about the Arkansas too. You don't specify what sort of Arkansas, but no Ark I've ever used accomplishes much of anything in 15 laps.

Looking at your honing sequence I'd venture to say most of your real polishing is happening on the chromed linen!

If I were you I'd do a hundred laps on that Chinese.

I use chromed linen on most of my razors. Some of them just feel right coming off the Y/G escher so I skip the linen, but I can't say I've ever had a razor react badly to it. Well, no, I take that back. The other night I got drunk and then shaved with my biggest baddest filarmonica, stupid idea that one, and it was mighty rough. I think I probably raked off the fin with the linen. Is it possible you were careless with your Dovo just this once? Or has it always come off the chromed linen feeling rough?
02-11-2009, 04:31 PM
singlewedge

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylandog

Is it possible you were careless with your Dovo just this once? Or has it always come off the chromed linen feeling rough?

Can't answer that cause I am just now starting to really pay attention to what I am doing.

Knowing the bit about the marker will help and the 100 laps on the chinese.

Anyone got any thoughts on an inexpensive 8k $20 max.

Thanks large.
02-11-2009, 04:36 PM
sparq

I have a little hypothesis - if there is something wrong with an edge that is not instantly obvious after honing (i.e. microscopic cracks, hidden rust etc), good stropping on linen quickly reveals such issues and the problematic material gets removed, chipped away etc.

On the other hand, are you sure that your stropping technique is okay?
02-11-2009, 06:10 PM
thebigspendur

Whatever your problem is it ain't the linen per se. Maybe the CrO the way you are stropping. I paste my leather not my fabric strops.
02-11-2009, 06:36 PM
singlewedge

I'll check the blade but I have a feeling that it is technique and the lack of an 8k.

Still working out the kinks. It just struck me as funny that a HHT blade went south so quick after the linen.
02-11-2009, 07:18 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparq

I have a little hypothesis - if there is something wrong with an edge that is not instantly obvious after honing (i.e. microscopic cracks, hidden rust etc), good stropping on linen quickly reveals such issues and the problematic material gets removed, chipped away etc.

On the other hand, are you sure that your stropping technique is okay?

Hypothesis??? Heck I use that on every razor, 50 laps on linen will find a weakness if there is one... I do my final 40x check right after the linen everytime....
Although I have never pasted a linen strop :hmmm:
02-11-2009, 07:47 PM
sparq

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hypothesis??? Heck I use that on every razor, 50 laps on linen will find a weakness if there is one... I do my final 40x check right after the linen everytime....
Although I have never pasted a linen strop :hmmm:

Forgive me! I started in December and have not managed to share/validate all my naive observations with the gurus, yet!
:bow
02-11-2009, 08:30 PM
mparker762

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlewedge

Still working out the kinks. It just struck me as funny that a HHT blade went south so quick after the linen.

The basic problem is the HHT doesn't tell you that the razor is shaving sharp - it just says that there is something about the edge that allows it to pop hairs. That "something" may be jagged teeth, it may be a wire edge, it may be actual sharpness, or some combination of all three. Performing the HHT is easy (hence its popularity) but interpreting the HHT correctly takes a fair amount of experience.

My guess is the edge wasn't actually sharp, and the pasted linen cleaned off whatever features on the edge that allowed it to pop hairs, revealing the fundamentally dull edge underneath.
02-11-2009, 11:18 PM
joke1176

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparq

I have a little hypothesis - if there is something wrong with an edge that is not instantly obvious after honing (i.e. microscopic cracks, hidden rust etc), good stropping on linen quickly reveals such issues and the problematic material gets removed, chipped away etc.

On the other hand, are you sure that your stropping technique is okay?

I have seen similar things going to higher grit polishing stones. Polishing on the edge (stone, strop, whatever) does reveal issues that are hidden at lower grits, to be sure.