First honing required

I have two Dovo s/s straights I have been using in rotation for about 8 months now and it is time to give them a touch up. They were originally honed by Lynn and I have kept their edge keen by using a strop and a pasted paddle strop now and again. However, the pasted paddle strop just isn't giving me a good enough edge anymore.

I have a Belgian blue and a coticule and guess I need to do a few laps on the coticule.

How many laps do I need and then what should follow it? Perhaps 50 - 60 laps on the leather?

The bevel should be fine, just a touch up required.

Thanks

Try the coticule then, linen then leather, shave, if it still pulls go back to the coticule or maybe lower.

If you think that the bevel is fine still, you could try a hundred laps on the coticule, with just water. If this doesn't give you an improvement go back to the BBW with slurry.
I'd just do one of them & see how it goes. Keep the touch light, particularly the last twenty laps.

Just to be sure I am reading this right...

100 laps on the coticule? That seems a lot more than I thought a touch up would require. I feel the bevel should be fine as surely once a bevel is set it will stay good for quite a while?

Dovo is a little tricky razor.You will need to tape back of the blade at least 2 layers of the black electric tape.Only Dovo i have seen was hone right was dovo frozen steel.I don't know what do you have but if it is not frozen steel then tape it.100 laps is nonsense to me.shave ready edge should take a lot less then that.by microscope 30X and check the edge.if it is gone you will need to start from level 1.bevel setting .etc.hope this helps

I just honed my Dovo SS with one layer of tape and it seems to be fine. Shaved with it and didn't have any problem mowing down my 3 days growth. I did however use two layers of tape on my Dovo Tortoise so I might just depend. Maybe adding another layer to the SS would make it better but I can't really see getting much better than it is now.

Hmmmm guys,,,, Lynn does not use tape when he hones, ask him yourself..
adding any tape to one of his un-tapped edges is going to change the bevel angle, and you would need a lot more honing... going to a steeper angle by adding more tape would create a double bevel on a convex edge (I am assuming this after 8 months of use)...

I would just start with 10 lap sets with a slurry on the yellow, once the edge is sticky sharp on a TPT go to clear water and finish her off nice and smooth.....

If that doesn't work then you are going to have to start from scratch anyway... But I would try the easy way first... JMHO here..

Better yet PM Lynn and ask his opinion...

Apparently Dovo puts the razor at an angle so that's why the tape is useful. Also I added one layer of tape to my new SS just to keep it in brand new condition.

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Originally Posted by Dups

Apparently Dovo puts the razor at an angle so that's why the tape is useful. Also I added one layer of tape to my new SS just to keep it in brand new condition.

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I am not referring to tape being good or bad, I use 1 layer on every razor I hone, but this is not a new razor, and it was honed by Lynn which means that the bevel from Dovo was re-set when Lynn honed it originally.... Which means that when doing a re-touch it is the easiest to start with the bevel that was set by the original honemiester...

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am not referring to tape being good or bad, I use 1 layer on every razor I hone, but this is not a new razor, and it was honed by Lynn which means that the bevel from Dovo was re-set when Lynn honed it originally....

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Ohhh I get it now! Sorry! No tape it is then.

First, allow me to officially state that you should approach this conservatively. If you have little honing experience, it's easy to make a razor duller than sharper and difficult to get it back.

That said...

I don't think your razors are in need of a touch-up. You did your touch-ups on a pasted strop, which is fine, and you seem to have had good success with it. But one of the typical things of pasted strops is that they convex the edge a little. At first that puts some new keenness on the edge, but there's always going to be a point in time where the very edge becomes so convexed that it's almost round. That's not a fault. It's just the way of the pasted strop. At that time, it is time for honing. Something tells me that you probably have got the maximum out of the pasted strops. Am I wrong in assuming that the last pasted touch-ups did not nearly work as well or as longlasting as the first ones? If so, that's just more evidence that the very edge is pretty convexed by now.
It takes some steel removal to hone the "cheeks" of the convexed bevel into straightness again. It is very unlikely to achieve that on a Coticule with water. Hi_bud_gl shouldn't dismiss Ben.mid's advice so bluntly. 100 laps on a Coticule with water is nothing outrageous. 100 laps may be outrageous on many fast cutting synthetic hones, but certainly not on a Coticule with water. (slurry is an entirely different story) I also happen to agree with Ben.mid that it probably takes at least your Belgian Blue with slurry to deal with the situation and reestablish a good keen bevel with flat planes. If at one point you decide to go to the Blue, you'll actually need 70 to 100 laps on the Coticule with water to finish after the Blue with slurry. Keep the slurry on the Blue very light, a hint of purple in the mix is enough and work in series of 30 laps, checking with the TPT in between. Once the razor feels extremely sharp and shaves armhair extremely well, finish on the Coticule with water. Add a drop of dishwashing soap to the water (one drop for a small mug with water). Rinse the razor well between different stones. Strop 60 to 100 laps on clean leather before test shaving. If the shave is very reasonable but still below Lynn's standard, try about 10 laps on your pasted strop. Because all convexity is gone, the pasted strop will do its magic again.

Good luck,

Bart.

I wonder how may touch ups on the cr0 would convex the edge. Every time I do a touch up with the cr0 I usually proceed to do about 5-6 strokes on a swaty before going to the cr0. Would that change anything?

Bart,

Well said: nice analysis and good recommendations.

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Originally Posted by Dups

I wonder how may touch ups on the cr0 would convex the edge. Every time I do a touch up with the cr0 I usually proceed to do about 5-6 strokes on a swaty before going to the cr0. Would that change anything?

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Yes that would keep the bevel flat, certainly if you use a pasted paddle strop. In that case the barber hone touches up the keenness and the CrO is only included for some extra smoothness.


Bart.

My typical routine is barber hone (swaty or sometimes coticule with water) followed by Cr0 on a paddle strop. I've also been using some plain newspaper lately as well. I wrap a page of newspaper around and old barber hone I no longer use and do about 60 strokes on that followed by linen then red latigo.

Thanks for all the feed back. Couple of things to clarify.

Razors in question are a Micarta and a Buffalo horn Dovo. Both according to classicshaving website have been 'ice tempered' and are stainless steel.

Bart - yes the last time on the pasted strop didn't give me an edge as keen as the first time. I have used the pasted strop probably 5 or 6 times over the 8 months. I shave every other day and normally do 16 laps on linen followed by about 30 on leather.

The Micarta definitely wasn't taped when honed by Lynn as the spine shows the smallest hint of wear.

Barts comments seem to fit my situation pretty well. I shall start on the blue with a little slurry and then progress to the coticule. if it all goes wrong, I will send the razors to Poona, a member here who provides an excellent honing service.

Just got to find some time now to do my honing.

thanks

You seem to be knowledgable about the whole honing-thing. Ok let me make my brief introduction to this topic.

I haven't even begun shaving with a straight razor but it will be here in about a week. I ordered a dovo half hollow ground razor. Being someone who loves collecting swords and knives and edged weapons, I have somewhat of a knowledge of putting an edge on steel; but from what I have gathered, straight razors require a more meticulous and detailed honing than does my 3 foot renassiance war sword. And even though many of you elder members advise newbies like myself not to learn honing yet, I admit I am stubborn and find that learning how to properly hone the blade is imperative, at least for me.

I have been shaving for over a year with a safety razor and its worlds better than a mach3, but I believe a shave can be much, much closer than what merkur blades can do.

So my question is guys, which stones do you all recommend to hone a non-pre honed razor??

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Originally Posted by hlee8791

You seem to be knowledgable about the whole honing-thing. Ok let me make my brief introduction to this topic.

I haven't even begun shaving with a straight razor but it will be here in about a week. I ordered a dovo half hollow ground razor. Being someone who loves collecting swords and knives and edged weapons, I have somewhat of a knowledge of putting an edge on steel; but from what I have gathered, straight razors require a more meticulous and detailed honing than does my 3 foot renassiance war sword. And even though many of you elder members advise newbies like myself not to learn honing yet, I admit I am stubborn and find that learning how to properly hone the blade is imperative, at least for me.

I have been shaving for over a year with a safety razor and its worlds better than a mach3, but I believe a shave can be much, much closer than what merkur blades can do.

So my question is guys, which stones do you all recommend to hone a non-pre honed razor??

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Well... when I started out straight razor shaving, I expected honing a razor to be easy. After all, I was shaving hairs of my arm for years whenever I needed to hone my chisels, plane blades or various knifes. So how hard could it be?
The problem is: arm hairs are no beard and I didn't mind having a little irritation at a small spot of arm after testing a chisel. The fact is, that we use all those tools for cutting something that doesn't complain being cut. We slice up a carrot in the kitchen without any concerns about hurting the cutting board. Now, shaving your face with a self-honed edge is an entirely different game. The edge needs to be smooth, but the smoother you make it, the keener it needs to be to have the same cutting performance. You could opt for less smoothness, but then it will drag your upper skin layer with it in its slipstream. On top of that, razor performance is very influenced by proper shaving technique, or adversely, by lack thereof. As long as you can't confidently shave successfully with a straight razor, you're completely in the dark about your honing results. Almost daily, we have straight razor aspirants arriving at SRP that state their razor isn't up to par, while in fact it's their skills that aren't up to par.
Bottom line, learn to shave before to hone, and enjoy the learning of that. Every journey has to start somewhere. The straight razor shaving journey starts with you, a sharp razor, and a mirror. Next shave, there's the mastery of the hanging strop on top of that. It will take weeks or months before you start feeling satisfied with your basic skills and years to perfect it. But do yourself a favor, and hold off with the honing for a month or two. It will help your shaving and it will help your honing.

As for which hones, you can post a new thread about that and receive 3 pages of different answers. In the end, it all comes down to personality and personal preference. Stick around for a while on SRP, and you're going to be attracted to a certain type, or brand of hones. Perhaps, you'll read about hones you already know and/or own.
But for now, my advice is to await the arrival of the DOVO. If it comes new from the factory, there's a limited chance that it comes "shaveready". Most likely not, regardless what they write on the sealed box. In former case, you're ready to go, in the latter case, it's best to get it honed professionally. The only way to find out is to try shaving, so there's your first adventure...

Welcome to SRP,
Bart.

Typically in these situations and being as you have a coticule, I would give it 10-15 strokes on the coticule with just water and then do 10 strokes on either .5 micron diamond spray or paste or chromium oxide strop and test. That might be enough to bring the edge back around. If not quite there, you can repeat this once and see if it takes you there. Another conservative approach is 10 strokes on the 8K, 10 on the Coticule, paste, strop and test. You can always go back to 4K if necessary. The Dovo Micarta razors usually come around pretty easy. I am not a fan of taping the spine unless I intend to take off a lot of edge, but if you do, you will need to start from scratch as you will be creating a new bevel.

I've honed, touched up and re-honed hundreds of these and they do not tend to be problematic.

Good luck.

Lynn

Well I appreciate the messages and replies I got so quickly. I had no idea I would get a response so quickly as I have seen on other forms days even weeks before someone replies with helpful information. The finest stone I have right now is a 4000 grit so I think I need to update my limited collection of stones because from what I have read from these forums is that 4000 isn't going to put the best polish on the blade. Sheesh, some of the stones cost every bit as much as a razor :p. Again thanks for the info and the replies, you will soon here more posts and replies from me when the razor gets here and we get this ball rollin'.
:)