The intimidation of Newbie Honing

Hello all,

I wanted to forward a post I made in the newbie forum about some of my concerns about honing in general. As a new guy (less than a month into shaving), I have a bit of questions about it. Here is my post from the Newbie section:

I am a very new straight razor shaver. I have received three razors thus far, that I like, and I am happy with them all. One was from OLD_SCHOOL on this site, another from Ken at RupRazor, and my Henckels from a member on B&B. All give me good shaves, but all feel different.

I am now thinking about stones because I know the day will come when I will need to use one. I also have a strop with Cr0 from Ken. One thing I can say, as a new guy, is that every time I read threads on honing I become incredibly confused. There is just so much information on honing that your mind becomes clogged with everyone's different methods and opinions. I read you can set a bevel on a coticule, then I read you need a 1200K and up to set a bevel and sharpen, then I read all you need is a barber's hone and that's it unless you're setting bevels on old blades. To get right to the point, it's very confusing and I have no idea what to take to heart as a method for me. The only thing is that I know I don't want to spend 1,000$ on stones, that's for sure.

I plan on using my .5 Cr0 strop when my razors start to pull. Maybe I will get a Baber's hone to keep the edges also. Isn't that enough for me if I am not going to chip my razors or set bevels on Ebay razors? I plan on buying blades shave ready since they're always on here anyway and I trust the guys that sell on here. I also see that a yellow Coticule is 8k but is not the same as the norton 8k side. The coticule is a finishing/polishing stone. Is this true? They're both 8k.

I really liked the idea of just getting a Swaty barber's hone off ebay and being set for.....a long time with my shave ready razors. Am I now wrong/incorrect for thinking that I can get away with this? If I can not find a barber's hone can I use something that is 12K or 16K for the same purpose? Is it true that you can polish and touch up a razor that just needs a little touch up after a month on a norton 4k/8k too? Would you do a pyramid with both sides to do this? 8k seems rough to me to finishing a touch up on.

As you can see this is how it feels when you're a week or two into SR shaving and you see all these things about stones. It makes your head spin.

My main questions are:
1) Should I just get a barber's hone for polishing my shave ready straights?
2) Would I be better off getting a 12-16K stone for polishing. I have a heavy beard and sometimes sharp razors that come shave ready CAN be sharper for my taste. Sometimes they pull under my chin.
3) Will I ever need a North 4k/8k if I continue to buy shave ready razors from you guys.
4) Is a Coticule the same as a Norton since the grits are the same (from what I see yellow is 8k, etc.)?
5) If I do buy a stone like a 12k I would need to lap it right? How would I do this if I own no other stones?

Thanks a lot guys!

Hey Nick,

1) Should I just get a barber's hone for polishing my shave ready straights?

Either that or a coticule would do you just fine I think.

2) Would I be better off getting a 12-16K stone for polishing. I have a heavy beard and sometimes sharp razors that come shave ready CAN be sharper for my taste. Sometimes they pull under my chin.

Stones at that grit level are sometimes too fine even
to touch up a razor. An exception might be the Shapton
16k since it cuts so fast.

3) Will I ever need a North 4k/8k if I continue to buy shave ready razors from you guys.

Probably not.

4) Is a Coticule the same as a Norton since the grits are the same (from what I see yellow is 8k, etc.)?

A coticule is very different than the Norton 8k. The
abrasive garnets in the stone leave a smoother edge,
and when you use a slurry it can be a very fast hone.

5) If I do buy a stone like a 12k I would need to lap it right? How would I do this if I own no other stones?

Use sandpaper and a flat surface.

To be honest, if I ever had to own 1 stone, it would
probably be a coticule. It tends to leave a great edge
for shaving when used with water (or lather), and
can do some serious sharpening when used with a
slurry.


Good luck!

- Scott

You can get by using a finishing stone for touch ups for a long time. It's your choice really whether it's a barber hone, chinese, shapton etc. Barber hone grits can vary though, so go with a tried & tested brand if that's what you decide.
A Norton 4/8 is useful, but if you receive a razor shave ready, then keep it going with a finisher it probably won't get much use. You could consider sending them out when the touch up's are no longer effective.
Coticule's are not the same as Norton's. They are a natural, & therefore it's hard to give them a grit rating. The garnets that do the sharpening are kind've football (soccer ball) shaped, so they give a less agressive scratch pattern. BBW are far cheaper, & can be hugely effective. The garnet content is both slightly lower & slightly larger. The increased size has been suggested to actually give an even shallower scratch pattern, as they give a less pronounced cut. These two naturals are fantastic to use & it's unwise to try to categorise them into grit's.
12k's need to be lapped & can be done on glass with wet & dry paper.

Very good information with your answers. I am grateful!

I see the coticule is available in many sizes. What would be best? I am guessing one that is 2" wide.

Also I would need to round the edges, correct? Do I rub them with sandpaper?

Interesting formatting aside, Scott has summed it up nicely. The rest can be read here: What hone(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki

I am perfectly happy with my Belgian blue/yellow combo:
http://tohserver.com/~robin/SRP/gall...n/DSC02038.JPG

I find that 2" is a good width. Mine's just over 7" long, but the longer the better, as it means fewer strokes. This is a serious honing related answer, but i can't help but snigger like a schoolboy!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sebell

To be honest, if I ever had to own 1 stone, it would
probably be a coticule. It tends to leave a great edge
for shaving when used with water (or lather), and
can do some serious sharpening when used with a
slurry.


Good luck!

- Scott

---

Huge +1 from a Shapton guy :D if I was just a shaver and limited myself to 1 hone, the Yellow Coticule would be the "One"...

You guys are really helping me out here. thanks so much. I think I will be looking for a yellow coticule soon, or maybe a combination of blue/yellow coticule. Now I just need to see how to lap properly with sandpaper. I will do a search.

Check this out: Hone Lapping 101 - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Disb,

Were I not a shaver with serious Hone Acquisition Disorder (HAD) I'd likely have started and stopped with a 6" x 2" coticule, possibly the natural combination variety with the obverse yellow coticule and the reverse blue belgian.

Take a look at both Jim Ayars' Vintage Blades hone section and Howard Schechter's The Perfect Edge for these stones. Howard will lap the stone for you for a nominal fee. Once done, for one shaver's touch-up use, it may never need to be lapped again. That stone, backed up with a CrOx charged paddle strop for a final polish, may be all one would ever need to maintain one's razors.

Straight Double Edge Razor : Shaving Products Supplies : Dovo Safety Razor : Badger Shaving Brush : Men's Grooming Products : VintageBladesllc.com
The Perfect Edge

good luck, good shaving

I got by for years with just a barbers hone.

I just bought a Coticule off of an online store. Can't wait to try it out (when the razors need it). The Coticule just seemed more diverse than a swaty stone. Thanks again! Awesome feedback.:tu

You'll love it, i'm sure. What size did you opt for in the end?

I have a lot of hones. I like to use lot of hones on a lot of razors. I also like to see what happens when you use just one hone so I have seven razors I keep in my locker at the gym. Those razors have been maintained for four years with nothing but a barber hone I leave in my locker along with a leather and canvas strop with no paste. They still shave perfectly.

Upshot is, if you have a razor that has been brought to shave ready status, you can keep it that way with just a single hone indefinitely.

U,

I think you ought to tell the folks that you can keep a puck of shaving soap going for 2 years, just so they have some idea of who and what they're up against in the 4 years and counting on the barber hone only tune up and touch up.:bow

:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce

U,

I think you ought to tell the folks that you can keep a puck of shaving soap going for 2 years, just so they have some idea of who and what they're up against in the 4 years and counting on the barber hone only tune up and touch up.:bow

:D

---

Two years? I've never had one last for less than 5 years! It kinda sucks since I encountered this place and now have 6 pucks of soap. I'm going to be in nursing home and I'll still be rotating through those same pucks.:gaah:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ben.mid

You'll love it, i'm sure. What size did you opt for in the end?

---

I ended up getting a 6X2" from Best sharpening stones. Seemed like a good size for a not too steep a price.

Two inches is still a nice wide size for a coticule. After everything you've doubtless read of about them, you will have a lot of fun playing with what remains the most versatile hone!

Thanks for this post and replys. You've all saved me a lot of trouble. :tu

I finally got my Coticule in the mail about two days ago. I lapped it yesterday. Does anyone have any idea on how many laps it takes to touch up a razor on the yellow coticule? I don't have the blue side.

Hi,
Try between 10 & 30 laps, with water only. If you're not happy after that do another 10, then try again & keep going like that. You shouldn't have to worry about over-honing with a coticule, but there's no point doing too many.

Addition here,
I think this needs to be added here before every new guy goes out to buy a Yellow Coticule thinking it is a great all around hone...
There are only a very few people that use one from bottom to top, Bart comes to mind, and even he has a bevel setter for really bad blades...
Disburden was very, very, specific as to what his requirements were in a stone.... The problems come when you buy your first e-bay razor or your first razor that needs a bevel set, for most mortals, a coticule will be an effort in futility setting a bevel, it requires an experienced hand behind the stone (read Bart)...
Just keep this in mind if you are a honing newbie, read Disburden's post very carefully..... most people are better served with a combo stone or a combination of stones....

Totaly agree on Gssixgun. especialy because I'm one of those newbs myself

I've been starting with a Coticule, BBW and DMT -E and needded all the help I could get to get it right.

Once you get the hang of it honing is a very pleasant thing to do ...but it can be a bit frustrating. But with the help of some great guys here at SRP and some patience eveything worked out (Thanks again guys!) Because Coticules are natural stones , some are better for setting bevvels than others.. You need experience to know one from another.. its a lot easier to just set the bevel with a DMT that is known to be a good bevel setter..

What I was wondering is that if your razor needs a touchup and you have used CrO on a strop (not a bench strop) doesnt that mean that the bevel is rounded and it needs to be reset?

as a newb I really enjoy honing a razor every now and then.. it is very rewarding to shave with a razor that you honed yourself...and I love the smell of a BBW with slurry...:rock:

Maarten

From what I understand the Cr0 pasted strop can round the bevel after a while and causes the razor to need to be reset on a stone of some kind.

Anyway, something unexpected to add. I PMed Bart last night about how I should approach touching up a razor with a coticule. He basically told me he has never had any success in touching up a blade with one (slurry or with water). I was told Slurry on blue would dull the edge more. I don't own the BBW side anyway, so no sweat. What concerns me is that I may have bought a stone that isn't going to do me any good for touching up a blade. Bart mentioned that a coticule excels at smooth the edge of a razor that is harsh from honing, but can not bring back any keenness on the edge. He mentioned also that all Coticules are different, so mine may work.

Now I am confused!

Well I hone my razors on a blue with slurry and that certainly does not dull the edge..
after the slurry I dilute it until I'm honing with BBW on water only and then go to the coticule.

I was convinced that if the edge was getting dull and CrO wasnt going to bring it back the bevel needs to be reset.. and that is beyond what I can do with only a (my) Coticule.. I would downstroke it and start with the DMT for that.

I wasnt aware that for just regular touchups a coticule isnt enough.. Maybe get a BBW as well? depending on your Coticule (if its a fast cutter with slurry) you will be good to go to reset bevels and hone your razors...

Maarten