Chinese 12K Meets the D8XX

Hey folks.

I've read a lot of information on lapping, the DMT line and the Chinese 12k, so I wanted a little clarification if that's okay.
I know that the DMT D8XX is great for harder stones, waterstones, etc. I've read a few comments from folks that the D8XX alone gives a smooth finish on the Chinese 12k.
First of all, does anyone disagree with this, or perhaps feel that more needs to be done to provide a good surface on the Chinese 12k?

Second, I'm reading that after some use, the Chinese 12k loses it's surface grit and needs refreshing. A few people do this each honing session.
Most say they simply refresh the surface with 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper, but could a D8XX be used for this instead?

Thanks, guys, I appreciate it.

I use the D8XX after I trashed my D8C on C12K's and Barber hones. I sell the slurry stones and sometimes they need to be touched up a bit before they're ready to go. The D8XX is invaluable when it comes to lapping hard hones. I bought mine really to take on my Barber Hones which seem to be made out of the hardest stone available. I think you'll need to hit the 12k with some wet/dry sandpaper afterwards. The DMT D8C will leave scratch marks, at least on Barber hones, so the D8XX will probably be worse, but see what happens. When I did my Swaty's, I went from the D8XX to the D8C, to 220, 320, 400, 600, 800 and finally 1000. When they were finished, they looked brand new. I can post some pics if you want....

Zib,

Much appreciated. Sounds like the D8XX got the stone flat, but needed sandpaper to smooth the surface for sharpening.

Sounds like sandpaper is the best option for refreshing the surface, too. I'd hate to buy a D8XX for one, maybe two hones in my life. I was hoping the D8XX would be all the Chinese 12k would need.

That's exactly right. The D8XX is a bit pricey, so unless you plan on doing lots of hone lapping, I don't think I'd invest in one.
Sanpaper and a piece of tile or glass will do the job and give you a nice surface on your hone.

I think a good honing solution for all hones might be to get a D8X and a D8F - it will only cost $20 more than a D8XX, and you will get a good "fast" lapping plate and a good "smooth" lapping plate. Use the D8X then the D8F (both under running water), should do a damn fine job on just about anything.

You realise DMT recommends nothing finer than their coarse hone for lapping water stones.

A few guys have junked their finer DMT's by lapping with them. (Link below)

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...w-problem.html

If I understood correctly, you're saying that you're looking to buy a lapping plate to lap only the Chinese 12k? If you're planning at least for now on sticking with that route then I would suggest asking someone with a D8XX to lap your 12k for you. The D8XX is around $70. Paying the shipping both ways I should think someone should charge you $10, less or even free as a favor to you.

As a matter of fact, if you paid shipping both ways, I would lap your 12k for free using my D8XX. You could PM me if you want to take me up on that.

Also, in my opinion I would never consider the 12k surface even close to finished after only getting the D8XX. Big swirly scratch marks are left after the D8XX. I prefer the 12k surface very smooth.

I do find that mine will appear to glaze a bit after use as seen by a metallic speckled reflection from deposited steel. So I do feel it needs to be refreshed using a fine grit plate or stone from time to time.

Chris L

Chris,

That is an extremely generous offer. I'll keep it in mind should I find myself in a bind.

This place validates it's hospitable reputation every day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

You realise DMT recommends nothing finer than their coarse hone for lapping water stones.

A few guys have junked their finer DMT's by lapping with them. (Link below)

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...w-problem.html

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Yup, that's why you use the D8X for the actual flattening, and use the D8F under heavy running water using light pressure to smooth out the scratch pattern left from the D8X.

A similar progression could be used with the D8XX and the D8C.

I see. Less work for the finer plate & the running water prevents slurry build up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I see. Less work for the finer plate & the running water prevents slurry build up.

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I tried using a d8E. It created a black slurry from a white stone. I don't recommend it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leighton

I tried using a d8E. It created a black slurry from a white stone. I don't recommend it.

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Hmm, interesting. All this about the DMT plates make me wonder why they're so recommended over sandpaper. It seems that many of them, even the most commonly recommended D8C can be damaged by the very thing we buy them for, and the only one recommended by DMT (the D8XX) leaves deep scratches on finishing hones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by huntmol

Hmm, interesting. All this about the DMT plates make me wonder why they're so recommended over sandpaper. It seems that many of them, even the most commonly recommended D8C can be damaged by the very thing we buy them for, and the only one recommended by DMT (the D8XX) leaves deep scratches on finishing hones.

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Honestly, the sandpaper is probably the route I would go for lapping ceramics. Ceramics are hard. Plus, the sandpaper gives a bigger surface area to lap with. And, you can go all out with no worries.

DMT for waterstones that are lapped in a few minutes, but sandpaper for ceramics.

The DMT8XX does not leave as deep of scratches as some would presume. I personally don't think the scratches interfere with honing for most types of hones. For those that do have significant scratches, I put finer sandpaper on top of the DMT plate for the final lapping of the hone.

I read these posts and see the prices of lapping hones. I just don't see the value.

What's wrong with a high grit wet and dry sandpaper sheet laid on glass.

It works for a coticule, an Escher, some japanese hones and even for a $300 Chosera.

Once you start lapping (WET) the surface of the sandpaper quickly gets covered in fine particles of the hone that is being lapped. So effectively you are lapping the hone on the same grit as the hone itself.

I don't see how you can get better than that. Incidentally wet and dry paper is very inexpensive.

You can purchase at most motor car accessories shops, the sandpaper is used for sanding a cars bodywork prior to repainting. You can obtain grits in 250, 400, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500 and 2000 grades. In England, Halfords sell packets for about $3 for 4 sheets.

Each sheet is like using a brand new hone.

I just got some 240 and 360 for 59p per sheet. that's from an expensive local DIY shop :hmmm:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by English

I read these posts and see the prices of lapping hones. I just don't see the value.

What's wrong with a high grit wet and dry sandpaper sheet laid on glass.

It works for a coticule, an Escher, some japanese hones and even for a $300 Chosera.

Once you start lapping (WET) the surface of the sandpaper quickly gets covered in fine particles of the hone that is being lapped. So effectively you are lapping the hone on the same grit as the hone itself.

I don't see how you can get better than that. Incidentally wet and dry paper is very inexpensive.

You can purchase at most motor car accessories shops, the sandpaper is used for sanding a cars bodywork prior to repainting. You can obtain grits in 250, 400, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500 and 2000 grades. In England, Halfords sell packets for about $3 for 4 sheets.

Each sheet is like using a brand new hone.

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Because they wear out pretty quickly. For example. Its impossible to completely lap a spyderco hone mildly crooked with just a pack of sheets.

I recently used 120 grit paper to lap a hard stone. It was much, much faster than using my D8C (for obvious reason) and the paper was as good as new afterwards.

Just ordered a DMT D8XX. Hope I get a good flat one. They ain't all the same.

I wouldn't worry too much about the flatness issue on the XX, Jimmy. If you've got a flat D8C and finish on that one, it will correct any subtle issues from an XX that may not be perfect.

That XX is the bee's knees. The cat's pajamas. It laughs at Chinese 12s, Swaty hones, even ceramic stones as those types of stones bleed slurry into the sink.

Chris L