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So I just ordered a 5k, 8k, and 12k naniwa stone. What is a typical honing method with them? I like the write up for the pyramid method for the nortons and am looking for something similar for the naniwa stones. I know the basics of honing and caring for the stones but am not sure how fast these things will cut compared to the norton stones and don't want to order do it.
I assume you're talking about the Superstone line. While you could do pyramids with those stones, they do seem to cut faster than the Nortons so you will likely be able to reduce the number of cycles. I have occasionally played with the pyramids but just can't bring myself to stick with them and I'm not sure that they will be as helpful with the Superstones. You might want to try to do a straight progression first and see how that goes.:shrug:
Actually the same pyramid progression works really well. Remember that less is better when it comes to the amount of strokes. They really do cut well. What that really means is that if you start your pyramid at 7 strokes, you may want to start at 5 instead and see what happens. Experiment and see. Another method is to hone on the 5K in X strokes until it shaves the hair from your forearm. Once you're there, 10 strokes on the 8K and 10 strokes on the 12K should do it followed by 10 strokes on either a .5 diamond something or chromium oxide.
Have fun,
Lynn
Thanks for the replies... I am excited to move into honing myself for sure. They should be here on friday so I will let you know how it goes.
Oh I have a question now... Will charging the canvas side of a dovo strop do the trick so I don't have to buy another strop immediately? I way overpaid for the thing I have($75 and I see the same one for $30 on websites >.<) I think my shaving budget might be gone for the month with the stone purchase.
Be sure and come over with those hones once you get them!:)
I also want to try them, I have lots of razors you can practice on!:w
If I currently have a Lynn Abrams honed razor with only one shave out of it...and plan on just keeping that one razor...could I get by with just the 12000 super stone and some .5 diamond spray or CrO...or is it still nice when the blade is dull to do a quick pyramid on the 5k and 8k then the 12k then CrO?
Basically I am saying I am not looking to get ebays or thrift shop razors and restore, set bevels...
If you want to keep your life simple, just get a coticule. Anything more is unnecessary. IMO the honemeisters feel that they have to create the sharpest, smoothest edge humanly possible, not because it's necessary for a great shave but because they need to defend themselves against new users who have poor prep, poor stropping and poor technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by erictski
i love my naniwas. especially because you dont have to soak them :)
im getting the 220 and 1k stones next week :)
i want the 3k stone as well.
just so you know they dont come off the stand they are sent in so when you lap them, its kinda akward at first because but i love it.
norton makes a fine stone too, dont get me wrong. the naniwas are faster cutters but remember its a different combo. personally this is what i do.
5k/8k
7/10
5/10
3/5
1/10
i knw that may be odd looking but it works and until i get word from lynn that im totally wrong in my method im sticking to it.
maybe i hone a little too many strokes but yeah.
If this pyramid is working well for you, I wouldn't change a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlawSkinnyD
Have fun,
Lyn
We do have a lot of opinions in this place........................:rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimensch
My main driver is to have a method(s) and equipment that will reliably and consistently deliver an edge that is a good shaver every time without spending hours on each razor. It is also to develop and promote methods that are the easiest to learn and most reliable for new folks whether learning to hone just a couple of razors or to begin to learn honing as a hobby and then have a good base to start from.
Lynn
Well Lynn,
I agree that a yellow Belgian coticule in the correct hands can put a shaveable edge on a blade that has already had the bevel set. It just takes time and patience.
The Naniwa Chosera also does this. It is so efficient that it will easily and quickly put a fine polished edge on a bevel that has been set on an 800 grit Naniwa superhone. I'm not sure that adding mid range hones does anything to the finished edge. I'm not even sure it speeds the process up. It takes minutes to do this with the Chosera.
Perhaps this is the difference between it and the ordinary "superhone" range.
Needless to say, you don't need any pyramid process as you only use the one hone. You do need to clean the hone however as it gets dirty quite quickly as it removes the 800 grit grind pattern. I found it took more time cleaning the hone than actually honing.
I can see a use for some of the range of superstone grits if you repair old razors but for Mr Average, I would have thought a 1000 a 5000 and a 12000 set would be more than adequate.
Thanks for the feedback. Feel free to add your pyramid to the Wiki.
If I may add a few thoughts here:
I think that to many times we (read OP) don't clarify what we are trying to accomplish when it comes to honing razors.... what I mean is what are you doing and how often are you doing it...
Are you an end user where you only hone a previously shave ready blade back to shave ready...
Are you a hobbyist who is after the absolute finest edge that may be obtained and money is no object..
Are you an economic user who is after the cheapest way to get in your morning shave...
Are you a collector who needs to take E-bay specials from butt ugly to shavable...
Are you a Honemiester who actually gets paid to do all these things for others....
Are you a razor restorer who needs to take damaged blades and bring them back to life and shavability...
All these things have different requirements for stones, don't get me wrong you can get by using say, "one stone", but each one of these does have an optimum stone set....and more importantly a stone use technique...
So in my eyes when somebody asks what stone or how to use what stone the question to them is, "what are you trying to accomplish with the stone?????"
For example here on this thread my questions would be, what razor, where is the razor in the honing cycle, is this the type of honing you are always doing??? etc:etc:
That is a great synopsis of the possibilities Glen. I know you mods don't like too many stickies but that post oughta be one in the newbie section. :tu
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictski
This is a great question... sort of what I was talking about...
Eric has qualified his use and goals we all know what he wants to accomplish....
So we can confidently answer his question with a "yes" the 12k would work just fine or perhaps the 10k followed by a .50 Cr pasted strop and he should be set...
Others could explain their thoughts about barber's hones and Coticules but everyone knows what he needs, and wants, to accomplish....
Actually, this one should go into What hone(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki. But what with Glen being as allergic to Wikis as I am to Belgian "beer"...Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Ah well, whatever. Glen, check the Wiki page, and see if you like the way I incorporated your stuff. Complaints will fall on deaf ears, as always. After all, it is 02:24am.
Lynn....I want to say thank you for your extensive and impartial testing of the various hones over the years. Your efforts have been a significant contribution to the knowledge base that we have now.:bow
Glen....you have it right, we really need to know the starting point of the razor and the intent/skill level of the user.:tu
Well, I've seen you post buckets of good advice so far, so could expand on that post a little?Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
You say there's a an optimum stone set for each of those scenarios. I'd really like your opinions on each. No details, unless you feel like sharing, but just a run-down of what you would put together for each would be immensely helpful and interesting.
I second that question, also. Perhaps a person may have too many stones, or choices. Life was simple when I had my 12K DMT, BBW, and finished with the coticule. More choices confuses me. :thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubb65
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubb65
Quote:
Originally Posted by zepplin
Ahhhhhhhh see there is the rub guys, that list would simply be my opinion as a Razor Restorer and as somebody that really can't wrap their brain around natural stones at all (my OCD does not allow for the variable grit range)
So my list would be very bias, it is actually a great thing we have here on the forum, somebody posts their problem, and they get several different opinions, You get Lynn's and mine which we do things fairly similar, you get Randy, Bud, Utopian & Jimmy's and they have a little more open opinion, you get the coticule master himself Bart who gives a whole different perspective... MParker & Alan who have put together huge amounts of info on this forum for everyone to learn from... Howard and Old School who can talk rocks for hours on end...
I am sure I am forgetting quite a few people who help immensely on honing threads... (I just woke up give me a break) With all that knowledge answering threads it gives each person many choices on which way to go....
If the OP starts with what information they are after, it just narrows it down much better....
There was a thread just this week where the OP was asking about why the edge was not biting into the stone, after 10 or so posts all about the merits and detriments of taping the spine and the use of double bevels... I finally asked the questions of razor??? stone??? and where in the cycle was the razor starting???
We all found out that this was a complete waste of time as the razor was a Paki, the stone was a 10k and he would have been there until next year trying to sharpen it....
I talk about honing a lot because it is my hobby. I have a lot of those green chiclets and most of them are from greeting new guys and steering them to useful threads for beginners and to the Wiki. Not because I necessarily know what I'm talking about.
What I do know comes from a combination of what I have learned reading the posts Lynn, Glen and the other members Glen mentioned and finally a lot of practice at my hobby.
In the little over a year that I have been practicing honing I have accumulated over 100 razors and honed most but not all of them. I went from mixed results to pretty much consistently getting them shave ready.
Although I listen to anyone who has something to contribute Lynn's opinions carry the most weight for me. He hones more razors in a week or two than I have in my entire life. He has been doing it for years with about all of the hones that have come down the pike.
So I don't know if anyone is old enough to remember the commercial about,"My broker is E.F. Hutton, and when EF Hutton talks I listen" but for me the same can be said for Lynn Abrams. When he talks I listen. Thanks to all of the members who make this website a valuable learning tool and an enjoyable place to be. :tu
Asking the questions about the razor, hones, what has been done so far and the persons ability are key to providing effective assistance to new guys or those having problems.
A checklist might go something like this.
Razor:
1. New or vintage
2. Shape of the razors edge...frown, straight, smiley
3. Carbon or SS
4. PIC available
5. Mfg, model, size
Hones:
1. Which do you have and size
2. Lapped
3. Refreshed before each honing session
4. Used dry, wet, lather, liquid soap
Honing history:
1. Previously shaving sharp razor or old/dull
2. Which stones have you used so far, the sequence of hones and how many laps on each ( if possible)
3. What honing tests have been used
4. Shave tested
Sharpening skill level:
1. Brand new to sharpening anything
2. Knife sharpening backround
3.Honed other razors successfully or not
You guys should add to this, I am on my first cup of coffee.:)
i just add what i know, ask questions when i dont. i had the joy of talking to beberlin in the chat last night and he said i ask too many questions. hes a funny guy :)
and randy, if i wrote out all the answers to the questions you asked before stating my inteded question, id probably forget what it was i meant to ask.
This is really turned into an interesting thread.
I tend to look at things this way...... If you hone 10 razors on a stone or set of stones, you have that experience. If you hone 100 using a set of stones you have that experience and on and on and on. Actually the more razors you hone, the more you get used to what you will need to do to a razor to get it shaving which can be a factor too. The point is that with someone wanting to learn, I have an opinion on which stones are the easiest based on working with people one on one and considering all the stones I have tried and the amount of razors I've honed. You all have the same thing going on for you. The bottom line is getting a razor sharp. The other bottom line is getting every razor sharp every time (not counting sub-standard).
This is the beauty of the forum I believe. Look at how many razors there are and how many people like which ones. Look at all the stones that are out there and imagine the possibilities. I learned from a guy who had honed thousands of razors and what he showed me worked every time. It sure didn't for me until I had honed that many razors.
This is a sport where you really have to be open to all the possibilities on getting a razor sharp enough to shave. Getting one sharp enough to shave or getting one sharp enough to shave when the person is in front of you and wants it now can be very different. In any case there is so much to learn if we can just be open to all the possibilities. New guys like with shaving usually want to get it down now and learn to soften up the stroke and even out the pressure with guidance from you guys.
Remember how tough it was when you were new and really got hooked? This is the beauty of you guys who experiment and who just love to hone or who have HAD or whatever to be able to say, I have done this with 250 or 500 or 1000 razors and it really works. Not what you think.....what you have done and what stones you have used and how many strokes based on the condition of the razor.
I don't know if this makes sense to you guys but your contribution here and in the forums is always top notch.
Thanks,
Lynn
I can only give you conclusions based on testing hundreds of razors. I have played with the Super 3K and 10K as well as compared the Super 10K and the Super 12K. Based on the results of using the stones from a standpoint of ease of use and consistency of results, I base the opinions given. I have also compared using these stones with the pyramid method at multiple starting points and from Glen's method. I am also experimenting right now testing the Chosera 10K against the Super 10K and 12K. As I have only done about 50 razors so far, I will hold off until I really feel that the differences I see make a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by English
Funny you should mention this, but I tried about 100 razors leaving the 8K out of the rotation and liked the results with using it better. What was really interesting to me was that I could drop down to the Super 220 or 1K to do some corrections and re-set bevels and then go to the 5K, 8K and 12K routines with equally good results. This has worked very well on almost 200 re-hone or ebay special type razors.
It would be really great when folks talk about this type of thing if they could also indicate which hones they tried what razors on, along with how many razors, brands, condition etc. and lay out their honing routines on them so that we could benefit from the efforts. I am never sure if someone is speculating or forming an opinion from actually having tried all these stones and comparing them to one another or what. The new guys would really benefit from this.
Thanks,
Lynn
Hello OutlawSkinnyD, Just wanted to inquire where you purchased your Naniwa honing stones. Since I am new to this and not familiar with the pyramid system could you give me process??? From what you have listed here: 5k stone 7 strokes then to the 8k stone 10 strokes; next, back to the 5k stone for 5 strokes and then the 8k for 10 strokes; next, back to the 5k stone 5 strokes, then back to the 8k for 10 strokes; next back to the 5k stone for 3 strokes then to the 8k stone for 5 strokes and finally back to the 5k stone for one stroke and to the 8k stone for the last 10 strokes to finish the pyramid. Is the correct fopt what you have listed in this post??? Thank you for a reply asap. Sonny082. You can e-mail me direct by that at yahoo dot com. Thank you again.