Crumbling edge

Still making a lot of mistakes. I know I'm screwing up here, but could someone tell me how?...

Subject is a fairly new Bismarck. Could not get it above mediocre with several aggressive, then consrvative pyramids. Under 60X there were maybe a dozen chips along the heel third of the blade, so I decided to reset the bevel by doing circles on a Norton 1K.

Took maybe 150 to get the dings out. TPT felt sharp, but would not cut arm hair or do a HHT anywhere along the edge. So I did maybe 50 more, then looked through the scope. Then I noticed, along the middle part of the blade (away from theoriginal area of concern), that the edge appeared to be crumbling. To the left and right of the crumbling area, I could see a very thin line just off the very edge and parallel to it. :thinking:I did a few more circles then scoped it, and that area had also crumbled away.:rant:

I did use some pressure when doing the circles. I think this was my mistake. I don't suspect overhoning because, as I understand it, doing circles eliminates that. I don't suspect poor/corroded steel, since the blade is only a couple of months old and it is a Dovo. I've read that grit from lapping (I used wet/dry sandpaper up to 420) can get caught in the Norton and do this, and I did lap the thing just before honing.

My thought is to use a soft brush and some shave soap to clean the 1K surface, then go back to circles on it, but this time with no pressure (other than the blade). Is this what you would do? If not, what? Do you agree that either a gritty stone or my hand pressure (I'd guess equal to several times the weight of the blade) was the problem, and -- whichever it was -- this could be the fix?

Many thanks.

The first question is what did the edge look like before you started monkeying with it?

If it's a fairly new razor and was in otherwise good shape and only needed minor honing I would never be using a 1K hone on it. I probably would have started with the 8K and seen what happened.

Usually crumbling edges are caused by corrosion or some defect in the steel on the edge or your honing too much and making the edge too thin or your using too much pressure.

Of course if the edge crumbled your going to have to redo the edge again so just take it easy and do as little as you have to with the highest grit hone which will do the job in a reasonable time. Once reestablished move higher in grits.

Your problem started at 60x, you overhoned the edge, chasing micro chips that you would have probably never felt while shaving, and honestly that is not all that easy to do... To much of a good thing as the saying goes...

By doing the excessive circle honing, and applying pressure, it allowed the edge to become so thin from both sides that it is now colapseing....

You need to get that weak thin edge off there and start again, re-set a real bevel and continue through with honing the razor...

At this time it might be a good idea to get this out to a Honemiester to correct the damage you have done....

Check the classifieds we all have listings in there....

Went back to the 1K and did circles without pressure. At least this didn't cause further damage.

Then saw a link to (I think) Josh Earl's wiki on circles, which was done on 4K. I remembered Lynn also recommends this. So I did circles on 4K again, no pressure. Surprisingly (to me -- I'm a little slooow), this seemed to work faster than the 1K. There is still a little irregularity along the middle third of the blade, but the rest of it pops hairs and the whole thing definitely seems to be coming along. Managed a good thumb slice on the TPT...

Think I'll do a few more circles on the 4K, then try a few pyramids.

Understand the suggestion to send it to a honemeister, but I'm determined to do this myself. :mace: I will get this Bismarck into shaving condition. Thanks for the help.

What kind of hones do you have available to hone with?

I find that using regular strokes works out better for me in the end than doing circles as the strokes will be more consistent throughout the progression and I then end up with a bevel that I can finish easily as I will be using the same stroke.

I also find it easier to control the pressure with a regular stroke.