Using the Thuringian as a final polisher after a coticule, should I create a slurry and then later dilute with water -- or just use water for this step? If only water, when would slurry be called for?
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Using the Thuringian as a final polisher after a coticule, should I create a slurry and then later dilute with water -- or just use water for this step? If only water, when would slurry be called for?
I used Russel's review of a stone to get the routine for my Thuringian.
It's here.
Should be some help, & he even finishes it dry to get an even finer polish.
Thanks for the link to Russel's post Ben. He is one of the forum members that I miss reading on SRP. I hope he rekindles his interest again. As for using slurry on the Thuringan, I know that the vintage Eschers and some Thuringans came with a slurry stone. I've routinely use a slurry on an Escher and finish with water only. That is not following a coticule though. If I'm following a coticule I do not use a slurry. It would be worth a try though just to see if it added keeness or subtracted from it. Here are instructions on the label of a minty vintage yellow/green Escher which recommend a slurry.
I just took a picture of the label of one of my vintage Eschers. It wasn't meant to include a slurry stone, but the text does talk about the 'slime' being naturally generated while honing, which increases the cutting speed.
I've only used slurry once or twice with these when I just wanted to see how much can I improve a supposedly honed razor, which was duller than I expected.
Thanks for the responses. I've been creating a slurry and then finishing with just water -- never have tried dry. I'll experiment. The stone with just water gives great feedback.
I dont have access to that page?Quote:
Originally Posted by ben.mid
Some use slurry and some don’t. I use slurry when honing razors for more than cutting speed. Reading the slurry is just another tool IMO. What do you think are some things that the slurry might be able to tell you?
It’s easy enough to make slurry..
MIke
http://i.imgur.com/EAOlkzQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CvmN2D4.jpg
Have the same issue. Seen the link posted many times but can access it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadbelly
Hi, I can`t get the link...Do you know where is it? Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by ben.mid
This is the Escher I own . It states use with water only , never oil . No mention about slurry though...Attachment 335364
My Eschers that came in a cardboard box full sized with fancy labels all came with a slurry stones.
That said I like to finish on them with plain water, but I guess more depends what you use as your pre-finisher that will determine if you need slurry or not.
Try it both ways,,,
Try it a year later the opposite way and check it again
I find there is "Magic in the Mud" go get dirty
Slurry is a double edge sword, it can increase cutting ability by increasing the amount and action of the grit. Not just rubbing on the tops of grit imbedded in a stone, but now loose grit suspended and lubricated in water rolling around in random directions under the bevel.
But that same grit rolling free is impacting the edge you are creating and dulling it.
There is a trade-off and different goals at play. Let’s say you are going to a stone with slurry after a 1k. The goal is to refine the edge, by polishing the bevel. First you must remove as much of the deep 1k stria to smooth the bevel and straighten the edge. A thick slurry will do both but at some point, the slurry is damaging the edge faster than you can refine the bevel.
Thinning the slurry, reduces edge impact. If you remove half the slurry, you reduce half the impact. You have the added benefit of slurry refinement, crushing the slurry finer, (with some slurry) on the bevel and transition your goal from stria removal to bevel polish and straightening the edge.
The trick is to understand your goal and what your slurry is doing. It is not just a matter of how much slurry you have but, the condition of the slurry compared to what you want it to do. If you are finishing on slate from an 8k you will need to remove much less steel and likely need a much less/thinner slurry.
Say you want to remove deep stria and have been honing on a thick slurry for a while. Your slurry darkens with swarf, bits of steel. The slurry with steel in it will not polish as well as clean new slurry because the steel will not break down like slurry and at some point, you are honing on steel, think ball bearings.
Once the bevels are flat and polished, (deep stria removed, or 8k bevel) it takes very little slurry to polish to a high degree. Thinning the slurry, or better yet removing and making new thinner slurry. This is where the Japanese method of harder finer progression of Nagura probably has a leg up.
This can be increased by adding more lubricant that causes fewer scratches, not allowing the grit to cut deeply into the steel, (polish).
You can prove this slurry edge damaging theory easily. Set a bevel on a 1k, now make a thick slurry, and do 20 laps. Wipe and look at the bevels, you will see random scratch pattern and chippy edge. Now wash the stone and razor and do 20 laps on a wet stone, no slurry. Look at the bevel and see an even stria pattern, more polish and most important a much straighter edge.
Adding oil for finishing can add a higher polish to the bevel. I have had good results using Smith’s and Ballistol on a wet, slurry free stone.
The other rub is not all stones produce the best edge with a “polished” bevel, Arks, Jnats and others. So, there is some experimentation involved with your slate, but keep in mind your goal and thinning or refreshing slurry to further polish the edge.
Yup, lots of Magic in the Mud, but keep in mind the goal and the condition of the slurry. Worst case you get a ragged edge from what ever reason, simply joint the edge straight, make a new slurry and watch the effect on the bevel and edge.
Add to all the above there is the quality/fineness of the Slate, stroke, technique, and pressure, this is where your experimentation comes in.
My 2 cents.
I don't own a Thuringian, but have a little Blue Escher "Tomo" (a gift from a Great Friend).
I tested it's slurry (made with a 1200 G worn diamond plate) poured (as suggested to me by Gssixgun) on my Nakayama Kiita Koppa to finish a NOS Japanese razor.
Check the post HERE and Euclid440 considerations on post below it.
I've to say it's delivering some great shaves. :)
