Can a razor be too sharp?

A razor can be too sharp for some people's particular technique. But over time they could adjust. If they are used to shaving off of a coticule with water only, for example, and then shave off something finer (and sharper IMHO), they may end up with nicks and irritation. Why? In my experience, shaving off of the coticule requires slightly more pressure to cut through the whiskers. The edge off a coticule is very forgiving for me at least and allows me to be very liberal with my technique and pressure. If I use the same technique as I would/could off the coticule with a razor off the thuringian (escher) and pastes, I get massive irritation. However, if I lighten my touch, I get even better shaves. People who are well adjusted to using a particular blade sharpness would probably dislike changing to a sharper blade, and find it "too sharp." I believe that the phrase "too sharp" as it pertains to razors is largely an issue of preference. Their preference may be based entirely on the their technique or even entirely on their skin type. Or more likely, some mixture of the two.

If the question is, can a razor get so sharp that no one can reasonably shave with it, then I think the answer is no. I mean, imagine if it were SO sharp that it were like a light saber. You would need ZERO pressure, in fact, you wouldn't be able to even touch your skin with it because whatever it was "aimed at" and touched it would cut. It's just not possible to get razors this sharp.

So, in short, I think you can get a razor so sharp that some would say it is "too sharp", but many would still prefer it, and likewise, you can get a razor that many feel is "too dull", and some would prefer that as well.

REALLY well said! I've shaved with a real honemiester sharpened blade after shaving with a similar razor that I had honed for a few weeks, and it felt "too sharp" until I turned off auto-pilot and adjusted my technique.

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Originally Posted by 0livia

Think of your blade, Chimensch :)
Anything nicely polished will be dry faster and not put on rust as much.

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Originally Posted by 2Sharp

No such thing as too sharp. If you are cutting your skin you are using too much pressure and or wrong angle. The sharper your blade the less pressure you need.

bj

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Originally Posted by littlesilverbladefromwale

When I bought my first razors, they were pro-honed and some were so sharp I cut myself if I stopped in one place while shaving, they wiped hair off!!!!!!!!.
I think I could handle that level of sharpness now. I haven't managed to hone a razor to be as sharp as one or two I bought of that sharpness. I may get some diamond pastes/spray to see if I can re-create it.
Too sharp:hmmm::thinking: Naaaaaaaaaah!
If I get there, I'll do some honing for free to see what people think, then prostitute my services to get out of this "credit crunch"..;)


Warning - don't hold your breath.

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Originally Posted by pjrage

A razor can be too sharp for some people's particular technique. But over time they could adjust. If they are used to shaving off of a coticule with water only, for example, and then shave off something finer (and sharper IMHO), they may end up with nicks and irritation. Why? In my experience, shaving off of the coticule requires slightly more pressure to cut through the whiskers. The edge off a coticule is very forgiving for me at least and allows me to be very liberal with my technique and pressure. If I use the same technique as I would/could off the coticule with a razor off the thuringian (escher) and pastes, I get massive irritation. However, if I lighten my touch, I get even better shaves. People who are well adjusted to using a particular blade sharpness would probably dislike changing to a sharper blade, and find it "too sharp." I believe that the phrase "too sharp" as it pertains to razors is largely an issue of preference. Their preference may be based entirely on the their technique or even entirely on their skin type. Or more likely, some mixture of the two.

If the question is, can a razor get so sharp that no one can reasonably shave with it, then I think the answer is no. I mean, imagine if it were SO sharp that it were like a light saber. You would need ZERO pressure, in fact, you wouldn't be able to even touch your skin with it because whatever it was "aimed at" and touched it would cut. It's just not possible to get razors this sharp.

So, in short, I think you can get a razor so sharp that some would say it is "too sharp", but many would still prefer it, and likewise, you can get a razor that many feel is "too dull", and some would prefer that as well.

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So, you all seem to be saying that I could hone the blade sharper and then adapt to using it. Probably, but I doubt that it's worth the extra work and effort, if I'm happy with the shaves I'm getting now.

@pjrage: Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I honed one of my razors on the Chinese 12K and didn't like the edge, probably for the reason you explain.

Shaving off a coticule meets my needs and lifestyle. I don't want to spend any more time than necessary maintaining my edges. I travel frequently and have a small BBW/coticule combo stone in my dopp kit so I'm always able to touch up the edge. Imagine traveling with a Chinese 12K!

Guys, can you shave straight off of the hone
without going to the leather strop? If not, it
would seem like the final razors edge is
obtained when you strop. Pastes and other
ultra-fine hones may be just polishing the
bevel in some cases.

Just a random, unfounded thought :)

- Scott

OK lets try one more time, Edges can only get so sharp, period, no more, that IIRC is about .50 microns give or take a few (don't hold me to that number go search it out yourself) You can reach that number or just about at the 4k level.... once you get there you can hone on a gazillion grit hone and you are going to get no sharper...... If you try and go "SHARPER' then you over hone the edge because you have to use pressure and that flexes the edge.....

Polishing hones do just that, they polish the bevel, now some engineer type is going to argue that you would still be sharpening and technically that would be correct right up until that very, very, fine point of the max sharpness level then you start overhoning (different point for different razors).... Finding how close you can come to that spot on each razor is what defines the term "HONEMIESTER"

So the answer is NO there is no such thing as too sharp there is, "I like a coticule smoothed bevel" , and "I like a Norton bevel", and I like a "Chinese bevel".... There also is "I am so good at shaving that I don't need my edges in that realm, and I can function with dull edges"... Hey there are people that get a month's worth of shaves from one disposable too, more power to them.....

I think the folks in 1910 deserve more credit than you are giving them. This is when beards became distatsteful in parliment, and it's the Industrial Revolution and new products are booming. There's a great sense of lavishness about such personal care, though it might not be done so much at home with a self shave but in the barber shop where one is expecting something he cannot achieve on his own.
I have Moler's manual from 1898 which instructs use of waterstones and mentions Swaty. Unfortuantely it does not say anything about pasting in the section on stropping.

But hey, remember that nasty blade at the beginning of Gangs Of New York?

Instead of sharp, how about too keen. I for one cannot shave off a blade taken to .25 diamond paste. I have to tone it down a bit. The irritation I feel is a direct result of blade sharpness or keeness, or are we just splitting hairs, Ha....Oh, and I never use HHT or the like, I shave with it. That's the best test....

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Originally Posted by sebell

Guys, can you shave straight off of the hone
without going to the leather strop? If not, it
would seem like the final razors edge is
obtained when you strop. Pastes and other
ultra-fine hones may be just polishing the
bevel in some cases.

Just a random, unfounded thought :)

- Scott

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I always strop before I shave.

It bothers me when I hear new guys say things like "I don't want to have to deal with honing right now" because they have this idea that they need a whole set of expensive hones. I'm not criticizing anyone who wants to refine their edge to the ultimate. I'm just saying its not necessary for a good shave.

You could get a lifetime of great shaves with one razor, a coticule and a strop, with the emphasis on could.

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

You could get a lifetime of great shaves with one razor, a coticule and a strop, with the emphasis on could.

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I think you can get a lifetime of great shaves off a Norton 4k/8k or an Escher or a Thuringen or a Nakayama if you would have the patience to use them just like the Coticule with slurry and then water. None of these including the Coticule may be consistent every time, but it can be done. And the good thing is that if you just have one or two razors, once you learn the process on them, you are set. RAD guys, have fun........:D

Remember too that everyone's sense of sharpness is different and personal preference is huge here.

Lynn

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

OK lets try one more time, Edges can only get so sharp, period, no more, that IIRC is about .50 microns give or take a few (don't hold me to that number go search it out yourself) You can reach that number or just about at the 4k level.... once you get there you can hone on a gazillion grit hone and you are going to get no sharper...... If you try and go "SHARPER' then you over hone the edge because you have to use pressure and that flexes the edge.....

Polishing hones do just that, they polish the bevel, now some engineer type is going to argue that you would still be sharpening and technically that would be correct right up until that very, very, fine point of the max sharpness level then you start overhoning (different point for different razors).... Finding how close you can come to that spot on each razor is what defines the term "HONEMIESTER"

So the answer is NO there is no such thing as to sharp there is, "I like a coticule smoothed bevel" , and "I like a Norton bevel", and I like a "Chinese bevel".... There also is "I am so good at shaving that I don't need my edges in that realm, and I can function with dull edges"... Hey there are people that get a month's worth of shaves from one disposable too, more power to them.....

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I agree with you that a razor edge can only get so sharp. That's where I was going with my light saber comment :jedi:

IMHO, polishing the bevel is what makes the razor sharp in the first place. The second the two sides of the bevel meet, EVERYTHING you do from that point forward could be considered polishing the bevel. They can meet at VERY low grits. I think, though, that you are defining "polishing the bevel" as starting the second that you have made some portion of the edge as sharp as it's going to be (0.5 micron assuming that number is correct).

So, I'll jump on board with that argument then, that around the 4k level I will assume (I have no proof) that you are starting to get into the realm of "some areas of the edge are as sharp as they will get."

So, think about it like this. At the 4k level, you have two sides of the bevel, both with scratches in them, meeting up to form an edge. As far as I can tell, the scratches in these two edges of the bevel cause the two sides to not meet up as evenly where they meet (the edge). Since each side of the bevel is basically varying in width from having scratches, the very edge is varying in width also. The complete edge would look jaggedy in width (on a microscopic level) if viewed straight on. That is to say, the edge may be 0.5 microns (or whatever the sharpest they can be is) at some points, and, say 2 microns at others. Where the two valleys of the scratches meet perfectly, it might be the perfect 0.5 microns in width, but where two peaks of the scratches meet, it is wider, say 2 microns (just making up that number). Does this make sense? I wish I could draw a picture to describe what I'm saying.

Anyway, as you take these scratches out further and further (polish), the edge becomes more and more consistent in width. Just for the sake of argument I'm going to pull some numbers out of the air, assuming that your 0.5 micron width is the sharpest a razor can get. Anyway, let's say that at the 4k level, the edge varies between 0.5 microns and 2 microns in width. Some points where the scratches on both bevel sides meet perfectly are as sharp as possible (0.5 micron), but where the scratches do not meet perfectly, you have varying edge widths as wide as 2 microns. Now, you move on from the 4k to a finer stone. Now you are removing the 4k scratches with 8k ones which aren't as deep. Now the edge varies in width from the same perfect 0.5 micron to, let's say, 1.5 micron at the spots where the scratches "meet up" the worst. Then you move on to say a 12k stone, and now you are varying between, say, 1 micron and 0.5 micron. Then you go to a 16k and get to 0.8 micron and 0.5 micron. Then you get to say, a 30k hone and now you much closer to a consistent 0.5 microns because the scratches are so thin that you really can be very consistent.

Now, these numbers are completely made up to try to illustrate what I'm thinking, but does that make sense?

If you subscsribe to this making sense, then I would argue that as you polish the edge, you are making it a more consistent width that is closer to as sharp as it can possibly get. When the edge is more consistent and also a smaller width, it will cut better. If it cuts better, I define it as sharper. Therefore, polishing makes it sharper.

Or I could be completely wrong, but it makes sense in my head anyway.