TPT-Refining Its use-As in, Need Help with!

Howdy fellow face Scrapers!!

I am just starting to practice the ARTF of Honing. I can get convergents of both bevel sides on the lower grit hone[1K norton], and with TNT it's seems just fine, then when moving to the Norton 4K/8K stone, after the agressive Pyramid progresion the TPT seems fine also, but my question is, when going to the finer, Conservive Progresion, by that I mean the one Lynn A. use's, as I polish I feel the edge getting LESS sticky on the wetted pad of my thumb. I it that I'm AM looking for the feeling to get less sticky and more polished?? I find also that to test shave with a razor being honed you really have to wait for beard growth to HAVE something to test!
And that does add time to the honing proccess. I know all this is subjective, but sometimes I feel as if I'm bloody well spining my wheels as the more I polish, as I said, the Less sticky, so, whats the best advice for my conundrum??
Thank you for your time and I would like to say how much this site has helped me with my new Str8 hobby.
tinkersd of SRP.

Tests, tests, tests, somewhere I need to write a article on tests :gaah:

Once you get to a good test, stop testing, trust yourself after that,,, to much testing dulls the blade :p

When you get all done with playing on the 8k Norton, relax a second take a breath... Then very, very, lightly and as smooth and as perfect as you can, do 20 very light, very even laps, and let the stone go to almost dry...
Don't test the blade, strop 50 linen 100 leather and go shave, see how that works for you..... :gl:

Maybe that's my problem. the TPT feels pretty good after I finish on the coticule of Chinese 12K. But later, maybe after stropping on canvas or on newsprint with Chrome Ox, it feels duller.

I suppose, at this point, I shouldn't be testing, just shaving?

i usually pass TPT off of my dmt 600. So i usually just test by trying to cut arm/leg hair and see how easily it cuts.

my arms and legs are bit bald right now because of this, but it works for me.

I have been experimenting a little with stropping between different stones to get a better idea where the edge is.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Tests, tests, tests, somewhere I need to write a article on tests :gaah:

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I can't remember how many posts and times I have said that the shaving test is really the best and most reliable test and yet..............:shrug:

Although, I do like a sticky thumb pad test at the bevel setting stage......:) I like the shaving forearm too when testing if there on the 4K.

Maybe the guys will come up with separate test clubs next..........cool eh??

Have fun,

Lynn

Ben you have the right idea, at least that doesn''t dull the edge that bad... Yes you do look like you have the "Razor Mange", but hey that's the price :p

Not sure of how long ago it was but I posted something or other about the TNT and the TPT followed by the HHT. More senior members than I replied that they had gotten to where they didn't even bother with those tests anymore . More than one said that as experience comes the tests will be used less frequently if at all. Kind of aggravated me.

Anyhow, time has passed and I've gotten to the point where I don't rely on those tests much anymore. I will see if the razor will pop hair when suspended above the skin and lightly brushing the hair on my forearm once in awhile and once in awhile after I strop I will check to see if the HHT is happening but basically I just hone and test shave. I actually have arm and leg hair now. No more of what Glen called 'razor mange'. :)

As a relative honing newbie, I too have found the TPT to get less sticky as I polish more. To clarify, less sticky than, say, after setting the bevel on the DMT 1200. Off the DMT 1200, the thumb pad is so damn sticky it's almost dangerous to even try it - you have to be very light and careful. I think the TPT is related to how the edge looks microscopically. It makes sense to me that at lower grits (~1k) it's microscopically serrated, which makes it want to cut skin very easily (your TP), but not necessary hair as easily (your whiskers). The TPT can tell you something at higher grits also, if you know what you're looking for, but it's definitely not as sticky. Sorta sticky, but different. I'm not sure how to explain it other than to try for yourself on many razor at many grits to develop a feel for it.

Anyway, I do look for the super sticky TPT across the entire length of the blade when setting the bevel. I sometimes do the TNT too, but lately I don't bother as much. IME, if the TPT passes to my liking, the TNT is sure to also. I generally only use the TNT if it's a problem blade and I want to see how the bevel is doing at certain points. Past the bevel setting stage, I don't use TNT or TPT anymore, personally. It's all about how it shaves leg and arm hair after that. I've found that I can be very reliable this way, and at this point, I know exactly how it should or shouldn't shave/pop the arm/leg hairs at each stage.

My favorite final test at the moment is to mow my leg hair down, ATG. My leg hair is roughly between 0.5" and 0.75" long, and what I do is brush the hair ATG (upward) a few strokes with my palm to get it sort of standing up, and then lightly take the razor and tree top the last 1/8" or so of the tips of the hair still ATG. If it clips them at that length without any hesitation at the heel, middle, and toe, I'm good to go for a great shave. So far, every razor that passes this test to my liking has given a great shave. I've found that razors that do not pass this test might shave "OK," but not exceptional. For me, it seems to be the test, but I'm sure that eventually a razor or two will come along that prove otherwise.

The OP is a very good idea--and not just for the TPT. I'm curious about interpretation and action for ALL the tests.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I can't remember how many posts and times I have said that the shaving test is really the best and most reliable test and yet..............:shrug:

Although, I do like a sticky thumb pad test at the bevel setting stage......:) I like the shaving forearm too when testing if there on the 4K.

Maybe the guys will come up with separate test clubs next..........cool eh??

Have fun,

Lynn

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Lynn, in regards to this, I've been trying to interpret my shaves a little more effectively.

Like, today I shaved with an Iwasaki straight that I would bet my left...leg...has only ever seen a Nakayama hone. It's been in a drawer for a few years, so that might effect the edge. I wanted to see where it was, so I shaved with it this morning. On my face, the edge was smooth and totally irritation free. It cut whiskers, with just a slight bit of pull, and behind it left a somewhat smooth surface with a bit more stubble than I'm used to seeing after a pass with a really well honed razor. ON the TOUGH areas (chin, upper lip) the pull reached an uncomfortable point, so I switched to a razor with a known edge.

How do I interpret that? My gut instinct is to say it's got a smooth edge but the bevel is getting rounded, so it needs more keenness. Am I on the right track? And if so, how do I get that keenness? Can I get it off the Nakayama? Should I drop down to a 4K?

Your right!! There seems to be SO Much bleeding[pun intended] art to this science that seems to extend the learnig curve to test the patients of even be best tinker/trainee.
Its just that when in the middle of a honing project, its seems hard to grow enough beard to do all the testing needed to judge the progress of the edge in queston. I will take a bit more time now with the advice given here with hair tests and a bit less with TPT's. I do agree that nail test is only really do/able after 1K bevel setting and not good for an edge coming into its own 4K and Up. I will be back to my hone's tomorrow, let you know what happens, if anything good!!
Thank you Lynn A. and everone at SRP for all your continueing help.

Sincerely, tinkersd of SRP.

One way to "calibrate" your TPT "feel" is the way I use when teaching someone to hone knives.

Take a DE blade and do one shave with only one side of it. Remove the blade. Even a brand new honer should be able to feel the difference in the two sides; using the TPT. Even though both sides are usually still sharp enough for a shave, the difference is very noticeable.

The TPT can detect even minor variations in an edge, with a little practice.

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Originally Posted by Sticky

One way to "calibrate" your TPT "feel" is the way I use when teaching someone to hone knives.

Take a DE blade and do one shave with only one side of it. Remove the blade. Even a brand new honer should be able to feel the difference in the two sides; using the TPT. Even though both sides are usually still sharp enough for a shave, the difference is very noticeable.

The TPT can detect even minor variations in an edge, with a little practice.

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What a great idea to calibrate your TPT. The only problem I see is using the DE :cry: I wonder if there might be another way to slightly dull one side of a DE blade without having to touch my face with it :confused:

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Originally Posted by pjrage

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I wonder if there might be another way to slightly dull one side of a DE blade without having to touch my face with it :confused:

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Cut some strands from an old brush, cork one side two or three times, or just cut 2 or three slivers from a sheet of notebook paper maybe (like some fellows test knife edges)?

I'm reluctant to post this, maybe I should just let it be, but the Wiki defines the TPT as per this picture:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...xplained_2.jpg

Is this widely accepted as what we mean when we talk about THE thumb pad test?

I place emphasis on "the" because I can think of at least 2 other ways to do the TPT. But only one of them can be the standard test that we want people to understand when we use the phrase.

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

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http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...xplained_2.jpg

Is this widely accepted as what we mean when we talk about THE thumb pad test?
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Good eye. For me and every barber I've ever known, the TPT is done by using your thumb or any finger pad (moistened or dry) drawn along the edge; not across it as in the wiki. The '61 barber manual also says "along the edge", not across it. Just touching the edge using no noticeable movement at all will feel "sticky" if the edge is extremely sharp.

All the knife and wood tool honers that I know also draw the pad along the edge, not across it, as a sharpness test. As does Heavydutysg135 in his excellent TPT posts and videos.

Drawing the pad across the edge is only useful to me if it is in the same plane as the blades major surface. i.e. a burr test.