I am a magician, I make edges disappear.

I was honing my 1/2 hollow barbers use the other day.

1k ceramic for the bevel. Set really well, thanks for the advice guys.
3.5k Arkansas for initial edge 75 - 100 laps
6k King (Yeah I went and filled in my hone gap) 60 laps
It is making arm hairs run away at this point.
C12k for polishing and it was a mirror finish on that edge. 80 - 100 laps
5 laps on a Swaty.
Still making arm hairs flee.

Strapped it 25 linen 50 leather. The edge disappeared. It would not cut butter. Still had a shiny polished bevel. I could not feel a rolled edge. WTF.

Started over. Started at the 3.5k and worked up to the C12k. Still not cutting arm hair. Tried to shave with it this morning to see if I could suss out the problem.

It does shave, but it leaves a lot of stubble behind and will not pick up anything that is not real long. In short it leaves about half a days growth behind. I did not strop it this time btw.

So I am open to suggestions because I am out of ideas.

it's ok after the hones but then you strop and the edge goes .....
maybe putting too much pressure on the strop ?
Hopefully one of the guys will nail the problem a little better .. I'm no expert .. but I've never had an edge lost on a strop ..
I've had a strop lost on an edge when sliced through it ..

cheers Garry

your progression from one hone to another is a
little bigger i think.
is this the only hones you have available?
if yes lets do out best to get a good edge from this hones.
at first . after 12 Chinese you shouldn't go to swaty. if your blade has been sharpened right you will dull the edge.
3.5 Arkansas is fine
6k where it is made? in Japan then i think i will count it same as 4 k( i know many people will doubt about it ).after this you are going to 12k
this is a problem. you will need days to get anything out of 12k at this point.
As you said you are getting hair cuts on this level it is because of 4k edge not 12k.
lastly you mention that after stropping your edge is totally gone.
Your stropping may be wrong ? too much pressure you may putting in.
Solution.
in my point of view.
after 4k (your 6k )go to swaty and leather it up make 200 laps after this you can go to Chinese 12 and make 100-150 with slurry (make it from Chinese).then light strop and try shave test. good luck
hope this helps.

I used the same pressure on the strop that I do for all my razors.

The 6k is a Japanese King Water stone. I'll try Bud's trick and see what I get unless someone else has any other ideas.

I've got a combi kingstone like this
I only really use it on razors that are in pretty good shape .

I am finding that my surgical black Ark., is quite a bit finer than my swaty...what kind of Arkansas are you using and what is the lapping process you use...just curious.

Thanks,
Mac

The Arkansas stone is a 3.5 k surgical and it is white. I lap it with 100 grit sandpaper on a flat surface.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by singlewedge

The Arkansas stone is a 3.5 k surgical and it is white. I lap it with 100 grit sandpaper on a flat surface.

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Cool.
I took my Arky Black from 220 grit all the way up to 1200...its seems to continue to improve my edge as i go up in grit...giving me some awesome shaves.

I agree completely with Bud
the 12K is finer than Swaty.

when I started honing there was a G-----AP in my grits and I would do a normal number of strokes on fine hone, then finish
BUT I NEVER GOT RID OF THE 2K SCRATCHES!!!

those 1k-2k scratches take a long time to get out and I didn't realize my mistake until I got a microscope ($1 brine shrimp rummage sale model)


GO BACK TO THE KING
use King X 100
flip over King (wet) and rub with Swaty (wet) until it's all clogged up
clog the bejesus out of it
slurry cuts faster + clogs the King and mimics a finer hone+ probably dulls the King's abrasive somewhat
this will give you a KINDA in between hone (I know, I've done it)
use that clogged King side x150 (with slurry)
use Swaty X 200 (wet)
try to shave

No good?
go back to Swaty (scrub it down because they get clogged somewhat after 200+++ laps)
get it to shave off the Swaty before going to 12k

this way you don't waste time on 12k when you aren't even close



I know this sounds like a LOT of time on the finish hone and it is
you have a gap and I don't see any other way around it

What kind of condition is the metal in, what type of razor is it, Did you say full hollow ground? It's possible it's breaking away..Anyway, if it's not the condition of the metal, (brittle) You may add like an 8K in your honing progression, the jump from 6 to 12 is pretty big. Think of it like sanding.
You wouldn't go from 400 grit to 1000 grit, You'd do 600, 800....think of it that way.
I myself feel less is more when you hone, since every time you take your razor to the rock your leaving metal behind, My goal is to get the edge keen with minimal strokes.
I just started using the Naniwa Superstones and they'r awesome. I took a razor from their 220k, to 400k, 1k, 3k, 5, 8k, 10k and 12k, then went to the Shapton 16k. Each stone I did 15 laps. I finished with Crox and the blade is great, it glides across your face.
The Naniwa's aren't that expensive, They're probably some of the cheapest stones on the market right now....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by singlewedge

I was honing my 1/2 hollow barbers use the other day.

1k ceramic for the bevel. Set really well, thanks for the advice guys.

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he said "Barbers Use"
that doesn't leave many options

"setting the bevel" to me implies that he didn't start shave ready
maybe an ebay razor?

As far as "leaving metal behind"
these things can have some HUGE bevels and you end up having to take off LOTS of metal to get near the edge sometimes
even more when they wear

I found out the hard way that hone wear can accumulate rather quickly on the spine with softer blades so I started taping my FBU blades.
Two strips of tape will also shrink that monster bevel.

So thanks Zib, you reminded me.

TAPE THE SPINE !!
TAPE IT TWICE EVEN !!!

and after you get done with tons of laps on a coarse hone, peel the top one and replace it because they can wear through if you really hone alot

I had a few razors that have done the same thing. I say reset that bevel with extreme prejudice and try again.

I bet you have some crumbly metal there, and it comes apart like a Zeepk when you get to your final stages. Get past that "bad" steel and you should be fine.

So I took the advice given here.

I wish I had two exactly similar razors to test both theories. I do not so I mashed them together.

I double taped the blade and ran it over the 1k until I had a better bevel. I went to my 3.5 and noticed it was slick. So I grabbed some 100 grit sandpaper and went at it. It was seriously clogged. It is now bone white. Went at that for 50 - 80 laps until it was mowing hair. Went to the King 6k and went at that for 50 laps now we are popping hairs. Went back for another 20 laps. Better. Flipped the stone over and used my Swaty as a rubber and used the resultant slurry for 80 laps, still popping hairs. Swaty for 100 laps. Test shave. Yeah it shaved. So I went to the C12k with slurry. 100 laps then 30 linen and 60 leather. Test shave it shaves. So we will see on Saturday what happens.

Thanks guys

well the Swaty on King thing isn't real scientific but neither is 8 million laps on the Swaty :)

it really only works if you clog the other hone up tight enough to glase it
it SHOULD change the feel of the hone



you must feel the razor
you must be the razor

In future you will need to feel the Gap between 6k and 12k.Norton 4/8k or coticule will do the job. good luck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

In future you will need to feel the Gap between 6k and 12k.Norton 4/8k or coticule will do the job. good luck

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agreed :rock:

Now here is the confusion.

I am under the understanding that simply doubling the grit is sufficient to hone a razor.

If this is not true then why is my edge polished without the intermediate step?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by singlewedge

Now here is the confusion.

I am under the understanding that simply doubling the grit is sufficient to hone a razor

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That is correct--Yes. but?
you can do so and spend example 1 hour.
if you use middle grit hones they will speed up precess.?
you will reduce time example to 30 minutes. i hope this answer's both of your questions.
second part why your blade polished you did more laps on the polishing stone. that is all. if you used middle grit stones instead of 100 example you will make 50 laps. etc.
hope this help.