Honing on a Kitayama - my 1st... I need your opinions?

Hey Guys,

So yesterday I honed 10 strokes on the Kitayama to discover that I am not sure if I saw really big change.

But I am not sure. It just shows how much of a newbie I am. I've been doing this for about 3-4 months now and am just getting comfortable shaving yet it felt like the razor might be getting less sharp and was failign some hanging hair test so I figured, time to polish with some people's advice here.

So I did that. As of yesterday I got a wonderful shave, tho what scares me is that while I try the thumb pad test and the thumb nail test, I see no real sensation that I could relate to the ones that you are supposed to feel. So I revert back to the hanging hair test.... that one, seems like the first 1/4 of my blade is still failing, leading me perhaps to believe I haven't honed properly or that it didn't do much?

Opinions...? Ideas?

Can I hone just the first 1/4 of it, or would that result in uneven metal removal and give my blade different heights in different sections?

I'm open for ideas!

I'm assuming you're using a 12k Kitiyama ? Was your razor purchased shave ready or did you sharpen it yourself ? I would use the marker test to see if the edge is contacting the hone with a normal x stroke. You may need to use a heel leading 45 degree angled stroke or if it is necessary a rolling x stroke. If you have magnification , like a micro scope or eye loupe , taking a look at the edge may tell you something. It is always nice to pass HHT but as many will tell you not required for a good shave. If you haven't already done so you might check out the SRP Wiki honing tutorials.

Hello Jimmy,

I am indeed using the Kitayama 12k. My razor was purchased brand new (DOVO best quality) and was sharpened initially by the master Lynn. Anything from that point on to degrade it was my own doing ofcourse.

I have indeed read the wiki pages and have somehow managed to overlook the marker test, could you please point me in the right direction?

I have tried using a sewing needle very gently and have found no resistance leading me to believe there is no small film of metal that is about to fall off. I am not very good with the light tests.

The shave test itself is passing with flying colors and giving me excellent shaves. But my technique and level of skill to asses the shave do not neceserily vouch of a good level of sharpness since i'm such a newbie.

The marker test uses a 'magic marker' on the cutting edge. Just covering the cutting edge. Do a couple of strokes on the hone and see it the marker is uniformly removed. If you're getting good shaves with it I wouldn't mess with it. Buy a Wapi or an ebay razor to learn to hone on and have as a backup.

I have the Kitayama 12K and compared to the Chinese its a fast cutter but in the scheme of things 10 stokes ain't nothing on that baby. I really don't use mine much because I have other stones that are just superior but when I bought it I thought it was the cat's meow and it does do a great job.

yea the marker test will tell you if you are doing an even stroke and also check the hone doesn't need lapping. Once you eliminate those two issues it's just hone until its sharp.

Can someone post a picture of their Kitayama box? And is there anything on the box which lists the grit?

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Originally Posted by JimR

Can someone post a picture of their Kitayama box? And is there anything on the box which lists the grit?

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Here is the only one I know of stateside. Not a 12k though.

Thanks for everybody's replies. It seems like the marker tests yielded the desired results and from what I can tell, I seem to be back in business. Sharp again.


Problem is, as the razor dulls with time, bad habbits get introduced easily. :) [a note to myself]

In the future, you should use your Kitayama just like a barber hone. That is, as soon as your shave quality diminishes, do 5-10 strokes on the Kitayama. Then strop and shave. If it's improved, shave away. If not, then touch it up again the next day. This is the oft repeated lesson of "it's easier to keep a blade sharp, than it is to sharpen a blade."

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Here is the only one I know of stateside. Not a 12k though.

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:( That might be because Kitayama maybe doesn't make a 12K hone....

It's all about nomenclature. If you look for japanese natural stones, you'll find that they aren't listed by a "grit" rating, but with names such as Aoto, nakayama, etc. The Kitayama stone was developed to be a synthetic stone with a more natural feel. This was achieved by taking the chips and other stone fragments from natural quarries and grinding them, then mixing that material with other abrasives in a binder to hold it all together as a stone.

You'll find this stone listed as the Kitayama 8k, the Ice Bear 10k or the Kitayama 12k. So the 12k is an 8k is a 10k.

"How is that?", you ask. Well, plain and simple, the kitayama wasn't designed for straight razor sharpening. Finishing on a slurry isn't a good idea for straight razors, as it just doens't work too well. But, using a slurry mud when knife sharpening is good. That's why they have nagura stones; you need a good slurry. Because of the natural abrasives in the Kitayama, the stone is friable. That means that as you use the abrasive, it fractures and chips and the abrasives become smaller abrasives, imparting a finer finish and earning a higher grit rating.

The kitayama, when used for knives, starts out like an 8k, but as the mud builds up, it works like a 12k. Average the two, and you also can call it a 10k. Whatever moniker you apply to it, the Kitayama 12k doesn't have as fine of an abrasive as lets say the naniwa 12k, due to the fact that the naniwa starts and remains at 12k, while the kitayama starts at 8k and finishes at 12k, but you have to make some mud.

That said, I do think it's better than the Norton 8k, and when used with proper technique should yield a decent shave.

Maybe JimR can make a bawdy limerick explaining it :)

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Originally Posted by Ben325e

{snip}
Maybe JimR can make a bawdy limerick explaining it :)

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And yet again the gauntlet has been thrown!

Hmmmm...Let's see...

They say that this stone is 8k
And for that we're not willing to pay...
But, with a difference not minor,
some lube makes it finer,
Just like a roll in the hay!

There are only two Kitayama stones - a 1k and 8k. There are, however, some retailers who sell the 8k as a 12k but this doesn't make this a 12k stone. :)

On a side note, my experience with the Kitayama leads me to find that it's best use is following other fine polishing stones that may even be of greater grit rating. The Kitayama doesn't give the results of a true 8k stone all by itself yet I find it almost always improves the results of other stones.