Starting out with a finishing/refresher hone

So after getting the usual swamping of info, I think for a hone set I'll get the Norton line, simply because its the most cost effective and there is a s*** ton of info out there.
But I also want a higher quality finishing stone, for use as refreshing and finishing. I will actually probably get this first.
Two questions- does this have to be the regular size? Like, I know hones are usually 6x2 for naturals and 8x3 for synth and expensive naturals, but do these touch up and finishing stones have to be that big? What size do you think I could get away with?
Now, as to quality, I am bracing myself for a barrage. I'm looking at barber hones (looking out for a *decently* (not ebay) priced 3-line swaty, will probably go with the generic kind, hopefully branded DD, but whatever goes), Thurigans (7.5"x1.5" NOS), Eschers (4"x1" NOS, or 5"x1" NOS), and maybe bout coticule. Any recommendations? does the small size matter that much?

As far as size goes, it's really a matter of preferrence. I have 2 coticules that I use just for finishing/polishing, but they're pretty different in size. One is an 8"x2" and the other a small 6"x1 1/4" (roughly). I actually prefer using the small one as it's easy and convenient to hold in my hold while using it.

The length of the hone just affects how many strokes you'll need and the width is really a matter of feel. If you're comfortable with a narrow hone than maybe you'll prefer it as it better accomodates different blades (i.e. slight warps, smilies, etc.).

Are you a hand-held honer or a table honer? That may affect your decision. It seems that hand-held honers prefer the smaller ones since they're more convenient. Personally I like small ones, but only since I'm using them for touching up a blade, not for major work. Anything from 1-2" x 5-6" is the most ideal size IMO. You might find you like a nice large stone, and that's fine too. :D

It seems that you already have ideas of the different finishers there are out there, I suppose you'll just have to decide and try one out! Different people seem to like different finishers, so it all comes down to preferrence, and you won't know until you try! :gl:

Unfortunately, I am a poor newbie college student. So I can't really try em all out. I was mainly looking for advice. So the small stone size is not an issue? In that case, can people please recommend/provide their preferences with regards to the thurigan/escher/barber hone/coticule question? Price is a factor, but if its worth it I'll get one of the nat's instead of a barber hone.

I don't find a small stone to be a hindrance at all. If you're used to using the full sized Norton's then a small stone would take some time to get used to. Since price is an issue, I would just consider getting a good quality fine barber hone. The only problem is finding one. It seems that a lot of people here have been looking for a Swaty or comparable barber hone lately.

I have a couple of coticules and vintage thuringians. The thuringians leave a slightly sharper edge than the coticule, but on the most part I seem to really enjoy the coticuled (yes, "To Coticule" is a verb now :D) edge. If I were to have one finishing hone, I would get a 1.5" x 6" fairly slow-cutting coticule from Howard at theperfectedge. The price is more than a barber hone, but it's a gauranteed good stone.

Wait for others to pipe in, as my opinion is only part of the answer. I don't have any synthetic higher grit stones, so hopefully others who do will speak up.

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Originally Posted by khaos

Unfortunately, I am a poor newbie college student. So I can't really try em all out. I was mainly looking for advice. So the small stone size is not an issue? In that case, can people please recommend/provide their preferences with regards to the thurigan/escher/barber hone/coticule question? Price is a factor, but if its worth it I'll get one of the nat's instead of a barber hone.

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Actually you still can, as very little goes to waste on the forum.. If you buy a stone that doesn't appeal to your tastes normally it can be sold for near what you bought it for....

That is very true. The issue is I don't have tastes yet... lol.
Let me put it this way. I want a very comfortable shave. Sharp is nice, but comfortable is priority. Lets put it this way. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 is nails 10 is like butter, I want like a 9 or 10. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 is rust 10 is atom slicing and to benchmark, 5 is barely shave ready, I would be comfortable probably at 6 or above.
From what I've read, Eschers do that. Not the sharpest, but very smooth. Will Thurigans do that? I saw somewhere that the two are very similar. I also read somewhere coticule does that. Where do barber's hones rank against these stones?

If you're shooting for comfort I'd say the coticule is your best bet, a good combination of sharpness and smoothness. And it's so versatile that it could potentially be the only hone you'd need for a long time.

Barber hones that I like to use as a finisher (in no particular order of preference):

• No. 00 Frictionite combination
• Apart
• Swaty
• Dubl Duck combination
• The Carborundum Co. # 102

There are many others that I haven't tried yet. Barber hones are a convenient size for traveling/storage and hand-held sharpening.

Coticule is probably the most versatile, but if you are set on the Norton I would pass the by on the coticule, its redundant, it wont give too much more than the Norton 8k(IMO). I would go for the Escher/thuringian after the norton 4/8 combo.BTW Escher is a brand name and thuringian is the type of stone. Eschers are Thuringian.

Strange because I saw somewhere in agreement with you, but saying that the Eschers come from a certain part of the quarry that's been exhausted. Well not really exhausted but the land its under is nature reserve so they can't mine it. Making Eschers rare. And are new Thuringens as good as old ones?

IMHO:

Coticule, smoothness 8/10, sharpness 6/10.

Chinese 12k, smoothness 6.5/10, sharpness 7.5/10.

Vintage thuringian and escher (same thing), smoothness 8/10, sharpness 7.5/10.

Coticule + chromium oxide paste, smoothness 8.5/10, sharpness 7/10.

Chinese 12k + chromium oxide paste, smoothness 7.5/10, sharpness 8/10.

Vintage thuringian/escher + chromium oxide paste, smoothness 8.5/10, sharpness 8.5/10.

This is defining smoothness as sort of the harshness of the blade on my face, and sharpness as how easily it slices through the whiskers.

I'm just pulling numbers out of my butt here based on how I feel about the finished edge and the shaves I've had off of the mentioned combos. This is by no means the end all, it's really just putting my feelings about the stones and combos into number form. Different folks will probably rate all of it very differently depending on their shaving technique and preferences and just their rating scale in general :shrug: Take it for what it's worth... not much :p

With regard to eschers and vintage thuringians... they are the same. Several companies mined thuringian stones during that time frame, and escher was just one of them. Some people think they might have selected the best rocks to put their name on, and maybe in general that's even true, but of the few vintage thuringians I have, and the one escher, I can't tell any difference. I've heard that the new thuringians, while still good stones, are not as good as the vintage stones. I think a lot of the newer ones have inclusions, but a good vendor should weed those out for you. Even the ones without inclusions, from what I've heard, are, again, good finishing stones, but not *quite* as good as the vintage ones. I don't have one myself to verify.

Thanks! You rated exactly how I need it- smoothness on face versus how sharp it cuts whiskers. Looks like you think the coticule and thuringen are on the same level smoothness wise, but the thuringens are sharper. That helps. Thanks.

The Coticule is a very versatile hone. You can go with slurry then go to just using water and gain some more sharpness. I might add that if you were to make some paddle strops up with diamond pastes then finish with Chromium you will end up with a very sharp razor that is very smooth. I am not personally a big fan of shaving off a Coticule but some people like it. I have an extremely heavy beard and I just need the add sharpness that diamond pastes offer.

Take Care,
Richard

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Originally Posted by khaos

Thanks! You rated exactly how I need it- smoothness on face versus how sharp it cuts whiskers. Looks like you think the coticule and thuringen are on the same level smoothness wise, but the thuringens are sharper. That helps. Thanks.

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Yes, I do think that, but that doesn't tell the whole story. It then comes down to personal preference. Yes, I think the coticule is smooth, but I don't like the shaves off of it because I feel it needs to sharper. Ultimately, you probably need to try them all for yourself to know what your preferences are.