Honing a slight S-shaped blade

Printable View

06-12-2009, 06:35 PM
commiecat

Honing a slight S-shaped blade

So I recently received 8 razors in an auction and decided that the ugly duckling in that lot, a William Bingham razor, would be my project razor.

I've been polishing it up and it's actually looking pretty good. I've also been acquiring a basic honing setup; DMT 600-grit (W6F), 1200-grit (W6E), 8000-grit (D8EE), a Norton 4k/8k and a Swaty 3-line.

I'm gonna use this to practice my honing but the problem is that the edge is slightly shaped like an S:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...ghams-edge.jpg

If I hold the razor perpendicular to a flat surface, the edge will touch at two spots. My question is how to hone this. Should I breadknife first on, say, the DMT 600, or is there another way to tackle it? Thanks for the help -- this is going to be my first strokes on a hone.
06-12-2009, 06:47 PM
Utopian

Definitely don't breadknife it. That won't accomplish anything with the warping of the blade. Also, given the condition of the blade, I'm not sure that's a good choice for honing practice. Maybe you should set that one aside and practice with other razors.

I guess the only way to hone that razor will be to use a very careful rolling-X stroke.
06-12-2009, 07:02 PM
Leighton

I'm a little confused now. Is the spine warped like an S? If so, like Utopian said, not much hope for that blade.

If the blade is wavy, ie has a smile and a frown, then... again, don't bother with it. If you want to save it, send it to a restorer. Otherwise, your just going to get frustrated.
06-12-2009, 07:06 PM
commiecat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utopian

Definitely don't breadknife it. That won't accomplish anything with the warping of the blade. Also, given the condition of the blade, I'm not sure that's a good choice for honing practice. Maybe you should set that one aside and practice with other razors.

I guess the only way to hone that razor will be to use a very careful rolling-X stroke.

Yeah, after actually reading threads about breadknifing I figured I'd ask before trying as it sounds like it could wind up being a lot of work.

The crazy thing is that I chose the Bingham as a project blade because I couldn't find any info about the company on SRP and the razor was the ugliest. I figured it'd be great to practice my sanding, polishing and eventually honing. Now that I've sanded it up to 1k grit and working on the 1500/2000-grit polishing strokes, it's actually starting to look nice and I'd like to try shaving with it rather than just damaging it in practice.

So breadknifing is more for chipped blades rather than warped ones? My folks run an antique mall so my intent here is to learn how to both restore and hone any razors they come across. Even learning how to breadknife a razor and then rehone it would be a worthwhile experience for me. As long as I can do all of that with my current setup.

Thanks for everything, Utopian. You should have a few of the other razors from my acution arriving today or tomorrow. :)
06-12-2009, 07:08 PM
commiecat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighton

I'm a little confused now. Is the spine warped like an S?

The arrows were drawn to explain how the edge looks, not the spine. I think the spine might have a smile -- I'll check that out when I get home from work today.
06-12-2009, 07:37 PM
Leighton

This is my advice; and I think the odds of success are better than anything else that I can think of. Either send it to me or Utopian, I'm pretty sure he's still offering free honing services, and I'm about to do the same, but on a more limited basis. We can examine the blade, hone it and perhaps explain to you the process used and why. Heck, maybe you can get a picture tutorial too. Anyway, food for thought. I really need better pics to give better advice. And I'm loathe to actually endore breadknifing, but in this case, it may be proper.
06-12-2009, 07:49 PM
commiecat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighton

This is my advice; and I think the odds of success are better than anything else that I can think of. Either send it to me or Utopian, I'm pretty sure he's still offering free honing services, and I'm about to do the same, but on a more limited basis. We can examine the blade, hone it and perhaps explain to you the process used and why. Heck, maybe you can get a picture tutorial too. Anyway, food for thought. I really need better pics to give better advice. And I'm loathe to actually endore breadknifing, but in this case, it may be proper.

I have two other razors en route to Utopian right now. I don't think the Bingham qualifies for the free honing and I wouldn't accept that offer anyway.

Thanks for your input and I'll try to have some better pics up within an hour.
06-12-2009, 07:52 PM
JimmyHAD

From the look of your photo and your description it appears to me that you have a frown in a couple of spots in the length of the edge. I have recently run into a similar problem razor which I fixed flat honing. I thought about breadknifing it but decided it would be possible, and in the long run easier, to flat hone it. I plan on posting on it later this evening if time permits. I would say it is an advanced honer's job for that one if it is what I think it is.
06-12-2009, 07:56 PM
Howard

Breadknifing or "jointing" on a DMT600 would be a good way to get the edge all in one plane. Next step would be to reset the bevel on say a DMT1200 and then start finish honing on the D8EE and Swaty and then strop.
06-12-2009, 08:26 PM
commiecat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighton

I really need better pics to give better advice.

Here's a better picture. I also amended the initial post with the change.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...ghams-edge.jpg

The spine has a smile. It's like the blade is straight for like a 1/4" and then starts a smile.
06-12-2009, 09:36 PM
gssixgun

The heel is pushed, see how it comes down too far, it has a frown basically just ahead of the heel, the toe was also mis-honed which is what cause the S-shape or what I normally refer to as a wowie or double frowns...

Honestly guys you could mess with this thing until you are blue in the face or out of steel...

Me, I would bread-knife that razor and have it shaving in 1 hour

There is a thread in the honing section called http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...t-popular.html
by Wild Tim you might want to look at the pic I posted of the Boker I was fixing at that time.... It might help you somewhat to see that fix....
06-12-2009, 09:36 PM
Utopian

I'm sorry. I completely misunderstood the orientation of the deflections you described. I thought they were relative to the faces of the blade, not the edge. Your new photo clarified it for me. The blade is nowhere near as bad as I thought.

Personally, I still would not bread-knife it. You could just do extra honing at the heel to make it a smiling blade. It would be less work and less loss of steel at the edge.
06-12-2009, 09:50 PM
commiecat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm sorry. I completely misunderstood the orientation of the deflections you described. I thought they were relative to the faces of the blade, not the edge. Your new photo clarified it for me.

No apology needed -- I'm sure I was overstating how pronounced the edge was and I put up the original picture just to get some thoughts. My Norton 4k/8k came in the mail today at work so that's my excuse for not waiting to post this when I got home when I could use a better image. :)

Thanks to all for your input and if I ever manage to get this razor working then I'll be posting a follow-up in the gallery. Every time I post a question or senda PM I'm still amazed at how quick, friendly and willing to help everyone is here on SRP.

:rock:
06-12-2009, 09:51 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm sorry. I completely misunderstood the orientation of the deflections you described. I thought they were relative to the faces of the blade, not the edge. Your new photo clarified it for me. The blade is nowhere near as bad as I thought.

Personally, I still would not bread-knife it. You could just do extra honing at the heel to make it a smiling blade. It would be less work and less loss of steel at the edge.

+1 on that IMHO.
06-12-2009, 10:10 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utopian

Personally, I still would not bread-knife it. You could just do extra honing at the heel to make it a smiling blade. It would be less work and less loss of steel at the edge.

Looking at what Ron is saying there, that very well might work, I was just trying to draw a smiling curve on the sceen, and it might fit that....just depends on that frown in front of the heel, and whether it will play nice or not... :)
06-12-2009, 10:38 PM
Leighton

I personally would do some Seraphim-like Shenanigans and chop off the heel and make it shoulderless.