Testing my long Swaty

Even though I've had the stone for a while now, today was the first day I shaved with blades off my long Swaty. I was shave testing blades, but, in a way, also testing the Swaty.

So let me start with a bit about the hone. She is about 8 x 2 x 1/2. I only lapped the front side, so my actual honing surface is more like 7 x 2. The hone has two lines of text; the first line says "FRANZ SWATY" and the second says "MARIBOR, JUGOSLAVIEN." I lapped the front with a DMT C and then rubbed the Swaty up against my C12K (or Natural Chinese polishing stone, if you prefer) to get rid of the scratch marks.

So, back to the testing. The first blade I used was a 5/8 Wostenholm frameback (of the traditional frameback design, the Swedish looks). I started on that blade with my normal progression: King 1K, BBW slurry (diluted until BBW with water), coticule with water. Then, instead of going to my C12K, I went to the long Swaty with water for 25 laps. This test was to see what kind of a final polish the Swaty could put on a blade.

The second blade was an 8/8 W&B "For Barber's Use" wedge. With this one, I set the bevel on my 1K and then went straight to the Swaty with water for about 100 passes (rinsing off the hone and blade every 25 strokes or so). I did this because I've always heard that in addition to being a good polisher, Swaty's are supposed to be pretty fast cutters.

On to the shave. I'd not shaved in about a week or so, so I had a fair bit of a beard going on. I started off WTG on my right cheek with the Wosty. Great shaving all the way - passed the shave test with flying colors. I then went to my left WTG with another blade that was not part of the test (she's not quite there). Finally, it was time to pull out the W&B, which I was most interested in. I was running a TTC (Towards the Chin) + upper lip pass, so it was a bit of WTG, some XTG, and a bit of ATG from my neck up to my chin. I saved this bit for the W&B because it is, on my face, the toughest hair and also the most sensitive bit. I have to say, I was quite impressed. There was a little pulling on my upper lip (nothing noteworthy elsewhere), but still an acceptable shave. I think that with another 25-50 laps on the Swaty, she'd have been there.

So, here are my early conclusions. This two lined, long Swaty works great as a final polisher. She's also a pretty quick cutter, and could quite possibly be worked into my honing progression in the middle as well as towards the end, or perhaps replace the BBW/coticule. I realize that running in excess of 100 laps seems like a lot, but considering that I would not have to raise a slurry, worry about diluting the slurry, switch between three stones (BBW/coticule and a finishing hone), it's really not a bad tradeoff.

I want to play more with that W&B to see how many more passes on the Swaty are needed to get the blade into top form. I also want to do some comparisons between my C12K and the Swaty to get a sense of which edge I prefer. What I can say now, though, is that I've very happy with this stone and very impressed with what she can do.

There's a reason 5 million Swatys were made. I think you've discovered what it is!

Just wanted to give a little update.

I took another shot at that 8/8 W&B that went straight from the 1K to the Swaty. Initially, I'd done 100 on the Swaty with water and there was still a little pulling. I went back for 75 more and now she's shaving like a champ.

I also took a Medium Sized Hollow Ground W&B straight from the 1K to the long Swaty with water today. I did 150 passes on the Swaty in rounds of 50, rinsing the blade and hone in between and she's shaving great.

I also used the Swaty at the end of my normal progression on an older W&B that I picked up (says "PATENT TEMBERED STEEL" on the tang and has "WADE & BUTCHER" right about where the spine rests on a hone; I'm quite sure she was reground so only about half of the Wade & Butcher is left and I taped the spine so as not to eat into the etching). Anyway, the Swaty put a very nice finish on her, too.

I'm real impressed with this Swaty, and I'm eager to see what she can do with some non-Sheffield steel. Good thing I've got some in the way...

Pretty cool!
How come you make such a large jump, from the 1K to the Swaty? Curious minds want to know...

Thanks,
Mac

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Just wanted to give a little update.

I took another shot at that 8/8 W&B that went straight from the 1K to the Swaty. Initially, I'd done 100 on the Swaty with water and there was still a little pulling. I went back for 75 more and now she's shaving like a champ.

I also took a Medium Sized Hollow Ground W&B straight from the 1K to the long Swaty with water today. I did 150 passes on the Swaty in rounds of 50, rinsing the blade and hone in between and she's shaving great.

I also used the Swaty at the end of my normal progression on an older W&B that I picked up (says "PATENT TEMBERED STEEL" on the tang and has "WADE & BUTCHER" right about where the spine rests on a hone; I'm quite sure she was reground so only about half of the Wade & Butcher is left and I taped the spine so as not to eat into the etching). Anyway, the Swaty put a very nice finish on her, too.

I'm real impressed with this Swaty, and I'm eager to see what she can do with some non-Sheffield steel. Good thing I've got some in the way...

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Glad to see my W&B 8/8 is coming along nicely, you'll need my address when? :)

Joe

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Originally Posted by McWolf1969

Pretty cool!
How come you make such a large jump, from the 1K to the Swaty? Curious minds want to know...

Thanks,
Mac

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Well, I knew the Swaty would be able to put on a good finish, and I've always heard that Swaty's are fast cutters. I'd never really spent enough time on the little Swaty's to see how fast they cut because... well they're so little and it would have taken double the number of strokes. Now that I have a long Swaty (and the lenght matches my other hones, so I can use the same X pattern), I wanted to see just how fast she is.

As it turns out, I'm pretty sure that going from my 1K straight to the Swaty takes less time than if I was to use my regular BBW/Coticule progression. I also think that since I'm not using any slurry, which I was on the BBW, going straight to the Swaty might be a bit more consistant. I'm not sure that I'll knock out my BBW/Coticule, because I know I can get that to work for a lot of different blades, but I think it's cool to have this alternate route.

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Originally Posted by Joeman

Glad to see my W&B 8/8 is coming along nicely, you'll need my address when? :)

Joe

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Haha, just after you need my PayPal account info. Seriously, though, I plan on keeping this particular one, but I've got you on my "please PM me" list.

I hear you!:)

In all seriousness, thanks for the info, good stuff for those of us ( not seeking to hone a large number of razors other than our own) trying to find a good finisher.

Joe

Synthetic vintage barber hones do not seem to be very popular. However, generations of barbers used them with good results. The Swaty is the only barber hone mentioned by name in Modern Textbook of Barbering. I am sure that says something about the quality of Swaty hones.

I recently bought this Yokoma hone: Vintage "YOKOMA" Razor Hone C. Klauberg & Bros - eBay (item 130313099954 end time Jun-23-09 08:25:04 PDT)

It is a really fast cutter and gets your razor shave ready. Cutting edge off the Yokoma is a bit harsh but it gets you a BBS shave.

It's interesting, my knowledge of barber hones, along with any hone for that matter, is very limited. I have seen posts by some folks that talk about a few other barber hones that seem to work well. I picked up a SWATY as it was a know entity and didn't want to stray to far from the path, less I get myself and my razor's in trouble. I do think it's funny that a three line SWATY can be had for $20 -$30 while a DD hone fetches a pretty hefty price on ebay these days and I've not heard much that the DD outperforms the SWATY.

Joe

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Originally Posted by Joeman

a DD hone fetches a pretty hefty price on ebay these days and I've not heard much that the DD outperforms the SWATY.

Joe

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It is the name you pay for.

When I first started out on SRP I had a Norton 4/8 and a standard size Swaty that I got from a barber many years ago. I used the Swaty with water after the 8k with good results. I didn't really know what I was doing but I was learning and the Swaty was smoothing the edge somewhat. I soon got a 12k Shapton pro and stopped using the Swaty.

A few weeks ago I took a long Swaty I had gotten off of ebay and for the first time I used it as the barber's intended, dry as a touch up hone. I had lapped it and never used it because I always use one layer of tape when I hone.

So if I was shaving with a razor that I felt needed a little extra attention between passes I was too lazy to tape it in the midst of the shave. On this particular day I wiped the blade off and taped it. Did 3 round trips, weight of the blade, on the dry Swaty and it definitely improved the sharpness and smoothness of the edge.

recently i have done some experiment with barber hones.
i have test only 4 of them.
i could use only barber hone and make blade ready from scratch includes if blade has chips.
or i have find result which i use barber hone after norton 8k barber hone then pastes with excellent result.
In using barber hones now days gives a little problem .
The problem is at the moment no one makes barber hones. As a result you cannot guide any new user right directions. example i know how acts swaty,three line swaty,frictionate 00, panama hone,keen cutter,cmon
In this case i can talk about them and how the new person will go find exact hone i am talking about?
I think i we can make a topic just name it Barber hones characteristics then every barber hone user can come in and let his experience rest of the people to know. In this case i think we will have more information and knowledge about barber hones. if anyone wants to know information about barber hones they can open that thread and read about it.
hope this idea helps.

That would be cool Sham...maybe have people post a picture of their barber hone, for visual aiding and also list experiences, methods of use, pro/cons etc...?

Thanks,
Mac

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

recently i have done some experiment with barber hones.
i have test only 4 of them.
i could use only barber hone and make blade ready from scratch includes if blade has chips.
or i have find result which i use barber hone after norton 8k barber hone then pastes with excellent result.
In using barber hones now days gives a little problem .
The problem is at the moment no one makes barber hones. As a result you cannot guide any new user right directions. example i know how acts swaty,three line swaty,frictionate 00, panama hone,keen cutter,cmon
In this case i can talk about them and how the new person will go find exact hone i am talking about?
I think i we can make a topic just name it Barber hones characteristics then every barber hone user can come in and let his experience rest of the people to know. In this case i think we will have more information and knowledge about barber hones. if anyone wants to know information about barber hones they can open that thread and read about it.
hope this idea helps.

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+1; it would be awesome to have some sort of compilation of information on barber hones. A single thread, a sub-section, reviews, or something in the wiki - whatever everyone thinks would be best.

It would be awesome to know things like how fast they cut, how does water vs dry vs lather affect performance, what is the final edge like, what sorts of razors "like" the hone, what sorts of razors don't, and all that good stuff.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

+1; it would be awesome to have some sort of compilation of information on barber hones. A single thread, a sub-section, reviews, or something in the wiki - whatever everyone thinks would be best.

It would be awesome to know things like how fast they cut, how does water vs dry vs lather affect performance, what is the final edge like, what sorts of razors "like" the hone, what sorts of razors don't, and all that good stuff.

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+1 on that idea, as a Mentor I nominate you for the task! :)

Joe

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Originally Posted by Joeman

+1 on that idea, as a Mentor I nominate you for the task! :)

Joe

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A little tongue-in-cheek, Joe (with regards to the Mentor thing)?

When it comes to barber hones, all I've ever used is Swaty's. I used to have a normal sized two line and a normal sized three line, but now the long one is all I've got. I'm planning on continuing to update this thread, and if some other area opens up for the info, I'll gladly post there.

If I had to make a suggestion on how to organize, I think a subsection for barber hones where users could post threads about specific ones or barber hones in general PLUS an attempt to distill the info on each thread into a section on the wiki would be the way to go. Just saying it, that sounds like a lot of work, but I think it would be the most useful way (at least that I can think of).

Maybe even a subsection for normal hones too? I have to admit, I don't spend a lot of time in the "Honing" section because I don't really like (or understand) why/how it is organized like it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

+1; it would be awesome to have some sort of compilation of information on barber hones. A single thread, a sub-section, reviews, or something in the wiki - whatever everyone thinks would be best.

It would be awesome to know things like how fast they cut, how does water vs dry vs lather affect performance, what is the final edge like, what sorts of razors "like" the hone, what sorts of razors don't, and all that good stuff.

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Like a Barber's Hone "Club"?:tu

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Originally Posted by Pyment

Like a Barber's Hone "Club"?:tu

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If it was my choice, I would make a new subsection in the "Honing" section for barber hones (or maybe a full new section called "Hones" with various sub-sections like "Barber Hones" "Other Synthetic Hones" "Natural Hones"), but that's just because that's the way I think/organize. I'm cool with anything and whatever form it takes. Mostly I just agree that the information should be out there in some useful way.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

A little tongue-in-cheek, Joe (with regards to the Mentor thing)?

When it comes to barber hones, all I've ever used is Swaty's. I used to have a normal sized two line and a normal sized three line, but now the long one is all I've got. I'm planning on continuing to update this thread, and if some other area opens up for the info, I'll gladly post there.

If I had to make a suggestion on how to organize, I think a subsection for barber hones where users could post threads about specific ones or barber hones in general PLUS an attempt to distill the info on each thread into a section on the wiki would be the way to go. Just saying it, that sounds like a lot of work, but I think it would be the most useful way (at least that I can think of).

Maybe even a subsection for normal hones too? I have to admit, I don't spend a lot of time in the "Honing" section because I don't really like (or understand) why/how it is organized like it is.

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Of course, can't pass up the pokes when you have the chance, off topic, but congrats on that, very well deserved.

Joe

Update on the testing: I've taken two differend W&B's that I had previously finish off my long Swaty; namely "Joeman's" 8/8 Barber's Use wedge and the Medium Size Hollow Ground. I took each to my C12K for 50 laps a piece and found that both shave better. I was sort of hoping that they would be the same (because I wanted the Swaty to be better), but the facts is the facts (or, my opinions is my opinions).

The next test that I have lined up, which I mentioned in the Barber Hone's Characteristics thread, is to see if the two sides of my Swaty give different finishes. To this end, I will be honing up two identical Henkels 401's. I have set the bevel on each with the same 1K stone. I have decided not to use my BBW/Coticule for this test, because there may be variations in the amount/dilution of slurry on the BBW. Instead, I will give each one the same number of laps on the Swaty; one on the front and the other on the back. Not sure how many laps yet, but previous tests suggest 150ish.

Hmm...maybe your C12K, is a higher 'grit,' than 12K...it is a natural stone and they vary??? Have any known, manmade, 12K grit hones to compare it to?
Just a thought...

Thanks for this experiment...its pretty cool.

Mac

Yup, those C12K's do have some variations.

The only man-made stone I have is a 220/1K combo, so that's no help. But even if I did have a known grit hone to compare with, I seem to recall reading that different naturals and different synthetics cut differently and leave different finishes (based on their cutting agents), so it's not always just the grit rating that matters.

I've finally decided to stop slacking and take a stab at testing whether the two sides of my Swaty are the same or different "grits." This came up in the Barber Hone Characteristics thread, and I proposed the following test: I'd set the bevels on two identical Henkels 401's and then give each the same number of laps on my Swaty - one on the front and the other on the back.

I just ran the test. I gave each one 100 strokes, and both were cutting hairs off my leg with the edge about a half inch above the skin. As far as I can tell, cut exactly the same and have tha same visual appearance, and so I am going to call my Swaty a uniform stone.

On another note, after I gave each 401 100 passes on the Swaty, I gave them each 100 passes on my C12K and, though I have not yet tested them, I assume they will pass a shave test. I find this pretty amazing; I went from a 1K to (probably) shave ready with 200 strokes on two stones. Essentially, 100 laps on my Swaty replaced my BBW slurry/diluted/water + coticule progression. Next, I plan on playing around with using my coticule after the Swaty (instead of the C12K) to see what that does.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I just ran the test. I gave each one 100 strokes, and both were cutting hairs off my leg with the edge about a half inch above the skin. As far as I can tell, cut exactly the same and have tha same visual appearance, and so I am going to call my Swaty a uniform stone.

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Holli4, Read the instructions that came with my mint in the box long Swaty here in the first post.

Barber hones are fast cutters, that explains their popularity.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Holli4, Read the instructions that came with my mint in the box long Swaty here in the first post.

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Thanks for pointing that out, Jimmy. I'd seen those instructions, but didn't know there was a specific hone (unique writing) that went with them. Always fun to do a good test though, no?

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Thanks for pointing that out, Jimmy. I'd seen those instructions, but didn't know there was a specific hone (unique writing) that went with them. Always fun to do a good test though, no?

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Thanks for doing the testing and posting. :) I have the one NIB long Swaty and a used one. I taped a razor and gave it a touch up on my used long. I couldn't tell there is a difference between one side or the other by feel or by eye. :shrug: Maybe their "rough" side is pretty smooth in comparison to what we think of as rough ? Or maybe that specific model (my NIB with the instructions) had one rough side and the other side smooth ? I'm not sure if all of the Swatys were the same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Thanks for doing the testing and posting. :) I have the one NIB long Swaty and a used one. I taped a razor and gave it a touch up on my used long. I couldn't tell there is a difference between one side or the other by feel or by eye. :shrug: Maybe their "rough" side is pretty smooth in comparison to what we think of as rough ? Or maybe that specific model (my NIB with the instructions) had one rough side and the other side smooth ? I'm not sure if all of the Swatys were the same.

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I'm thinking there must be different Swaty's. I seem to remember some people saying that the ones with two lines of text are more coarse than the ones with three lines of text. While I cannot say for certain, I seem to remember my old normal Swaty with three lines of text putting a better edge on my blades that my long Swaty with two lines of text does. But then again, that may just be because I had not been exposed to a C12k back when I had my little three liner.

As an update to my testing, I was thinking about this afternoon at JoeD's place, and I was thinking about all the laps I was doing on my Swaty, and I thought to myself "Why am I not doing circles?" So I grabbed another blade that was fresh off my 1k and did about 10 seconds of circles on each side, followed by about 30 laps. Went from there to about 50 laps on the C12k, and I was matching my other blades. Can I get a "You might have spent a day at JoeD's if..." Next time I'm going to play with some circles on my C12k too.