Honing woes

I have a Norton 4000/8000 and a Chinese 12,000 honing setup. I lapped the Norton with the `Norton honing' stone and the other with 600 grit wet sandpaper. I've done the `aggressive' pyramid schedule twice on the following razors (ebay specials) but still can't manage to shave with them (my beard is pretty tough):

Thiers Issard `Dandy' 6/8, edge looks sharp but really doesn't want to cut whiskers.
Red Imp wedge `132', also- barely cuts whiskers.

Also, I have a Dovo `Best Quality' 5/8, wasn't shaving well and did a `conservative' pyramid, doesn't shave any better after honing. When doing passes on the 4000 grit it seems to `grab' (not on the 8000 side, the other razors don't do this).

I have a Red imp '133' that I get a decent shave with and I let the hot lather sit on my face while I strop.

Advice? I bought Lynn's DVD & watched Jockey's honing tips. I seem to be doing everything right, but aren't getting the results... Another couple of `aggressive' passes? Electrical tape? Anyone live near Ambler, PA that could show me how to properly hone??

Thanks
Joe

First relax.

Second I tape my spines but that is personal preference.

Third. Forget pyramids, blasphemy I know.

Set your bevel until the bevel is shiny and even along the entire length of the blade. Then try to get hairs to shave, I can sometimes get this but not always.

Move to the next stone slow even strokes check the edge, repeat. I usually start with 30 laps. Once hairs are popping move to the next and repeat the process and so on.

Patience, patience.

... PM sent ...

Check this bevel setting article out in the SRP Wik here . I agree with Singlewedge that the bevel setting is the foundation and you build from there. As far as pyramid versus progressive, whatever works for you. I happen to like the pyramid method but I also mess with progressive honing and it works too.

The bevel is the key for old razors to be able to shave at all. What I use is a DMT1200 to set my bevels, the norton will work, but it takes longer. The norton pyramids are mostly for new guys that don't want 14 stones lying around their bed room. Once I set the bevel on the DMT1200 the edge should be mirror shiny, then it'll shave my arm hair without touching the skin.

Then I will move to the norton 4k and then the 8K side. You can use the conservative pyramid for this since the razor WILL Shave after the DMT.

After I feel it is sticky enough on the TPT while in the conservative pyramid I move on to the coticule with water for a touch up, the 12K chinese stone works too, you can use a pasted strop or just shave off the 8k. I actually don't mind shaving off the 8k, I think my tough beard likes it.

When I try the thumb pad test they all seem to wanna cut, with a little grippyness. In fact they'll cut all to well with enough pressure.

But when I try to shave the blade just scrapes away the lather, leaving the whiskers standing upright, defiant, mocking...

The Dovo is new, & I presume it has a decent bevel (they all 'appear' to)
Possibly they are overhoned? What then? Intentionally dull it and restart??

Joe

Please explain your aggressive and conservative pyramids and exactly how many strokes on each stone. It helps to see the ebay specials as well to determine how much wear is there already.

Thanks,

Lynn

Agree with everyone above. The bevel is THE most important part of honing/restoration. If the bevel is not there, its going to be a PITA to get the razor to shave.

Off the DMT 1200 the edge is very sharp and will chop arm hairs off easily. Other stones may not be so sharp, but the results are similar. As to why the DMT E gives such a sharp edge....I have my theories, but who knows. I still prefer the nani 1k though.

Joe, it sounds like you needn't dull it. I know the rational behind intentionally dulling a razor but it goes against my grain. I have enough trouble without creating more.

If you have some sort of magnification, eye loupe, radio shack microscope you can see what your bevel is looking like.

I used to take a new DE blade and feel that with my thumb pad , thanks to Randy, to get the feel of what a sharp blade should feel like with the TPT.

I like to hone them to where the razor will pop hair (without skin contact) all along the edge. I won't shave test unless it will do that.

Have you gotten you edge to that point yet ? If not give it a try and then strop and shave. As Disburden said, you can get a good comfortable and close shave off of the 8K. At least I can with my particular beard. You might try going that far and test shave and see what you have. Stretch that skin. :)

Setting the bevel and honing with the Norton 4/8 Pyramid - Straight Razor Place Wiki

but I don't have a 1000 grit stone, guess I'm off to order....

My attempts at honing also failed on the hanging hair test and when trying to shave off arm hairs...

Still can't imagine I goofed my nearly new Dovo that bad...

thanks


Joe

I have no idea Joe. It does seem odd that your new dovo would be messed up so badly that it doesn't shave arm hairs.

If you like, send it to me, I'll evaluate it and if it needs work, I'll hone it for you as part of my free honing offer and tell you what I did.

the black marker test will tell if the bevel is set right, i went through this last night i was honing a wedge and the toe would not do it then the black marker showed the problem that i had. 20 minutes later i was shaving with it.

Is the Dovo your only razor ? I'm not saying you need a whole bunch of razors to shave with a straight but if you want to learn how to hone them it sure helps to have one pro honed and a few to practice on. The one honed by a honemiester can be your go to shaver and the one that you use to judge the others that you hone for your progress.

If you aren't an experienced honer and you are working on your only razor it is harder. You may pick it up easily or you may have to work at it a bit. I know I do. Ronnie is right about the marker test and you can set the bevel on a 4k as Randy told me if you are patient and persistent. Might be good to take Leighton up on his generous offer and get a couple of ebay Solingens to practice on.

I agree with the above posts as well.

Sounds like the bevel should be checked.
The marker test should take care of that.

In theory, one could use the 4k to set the bevel. It just takes longer, thats all. The edge should be sharp enough to cut hair before leaving the 4k. If the edge seems to become duller whilst on the 4k, my first thought would be - too much pressure.

My big hangup while honing was just that ... too much pressure.

Ya might consider picking up a beater to learn on. Actually, I have a few. If you would like one, let me know.

Dont get too caught up on the sharpness tests. Really, the only test that counts is the shave test.

For the honing job. The razor cuts whiskers like a hot knife through butter!

Joe